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Back to basics?
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:34 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Re: Back to basics?

Rick, I think because you type like you would speak, and text doesn't translate with intonation and facial expressions, people can take the straightforward approach as abrasive - even when it is not intentional.

As to the advice given, I think the vast majority of the time it is very good and spot on.. But as with all things in life, we have to be willing to look through the things that hit us wrong and still glean the good out of it..It is a lesson that serves us well in life..

I haven't done herding, however, I did have a GSD a few years back that was a herder through and through - but he bordered on the ACD side, being very tough and nippy... Unfortunately, I only had horses, and he was blinkin' fast. It did require a different bonding aspect with him, leashing him to me for a few weeks, an e- collar towards the end (he ignored the shocks in the beginning) of training, watching him and stopping thoughts before they became actions, and over time, keeping my spidey sense always present.

He got to about 98% trustworthy with horses, but I was always on guard and aware of his actions. If he 'disappeared' for a bit while I was giving a lesson or working a horse, I made sure I found him before daydreaming became a nightmare..

Probably not much information in this, but a shared experience of 'herders from hell.' Good luck OP I am sure this can be resolved
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:50 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: Back to basics?

actually there were a lotta keepers in that thread. i really liked the idea of 'planting' in the pen with a book and the dog.

that is precisely what i was referring to about dealing with the issue at a low level of conflict and condition the pen action so it becomes part of the normal background rather than a stimulus. "correcting 'til compliance" may be required, but it's never my first choice.

it's actually applicable for dealing with a variety of issues beyond herding, and i always stay optimistic that there are still lurkers who are reading who can benefit regardless of how the OP accepts/rejects the suggestions posted.

my writing style has also been a product of something i learned from a VERY wise old Navy admiral (Chauncey Hoffman). he was a huge proponent of the "simple english" style of writing and the George Bernard Shaw philosophy i've posted about this story before and how he had a huge impact on my life in so many positive ways.
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:36 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Re: Back to basics?

Rick I havn't got a problem with your attitude, neither have I a problem with your advice mostly (on the forum not just this topic) the OP was the one that got pissed with you. It's not the first time you have made "demands" and accused people of "disapearing because they don't have the balls to deal with the problem" and pissed an OP off.
The forum is not dead because of you and no one is saying that, the forum is dead for its own reasons, i.e facebook.
Rubbing new posters up the wrong way will not help matters.

Yes there are ducks in the pen.
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Old 09-27-2017, 01:07 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Re: Back to basics?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgU65DHVgJ0
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:45 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Re: Back to basics?

Thanks Matt! Having spent the most of my life with terriers/terrier mixes and GSDs/GSD mixes I've actually though a lot about the ACD simply because they have the attitude of both GSD and terrier.

Strong protective instincts with the fire and intensity of the terriers.

Neither breed belongs in the hands of a green dog person without a ton of support and guidance from a experienced and responsible trainer.
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:25 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Re: Back to basics?

Seems the OP was serious when she said she was done here. Ya gotta love a person who is serious. Just don't take her lightly if she threatens suicide. Seen thousands who threaten it but only a handful who do it.
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:38 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Re: Back to basics?

Alright, just got a chance to really come back and read through this. Again, busy farm, and it won't stop f'ing raining here, so it's a swamp, and well...problems associated with your property being under water. It's just me here the last month, since DH is away at a military school in TX. Spare time is a luxury, but I got enough of a break in the rain today to knock out the disasters.

I like the sit in the pen idea, I'm not adverse to giving that a try. I'm not going to say it'll work, because I do have some goats that think I'm awesome and have to get all up in my business, which might be a bit close to the dog.

To answer someones question, yes he bit in the pen. Basically "herded" them in and when they ran in, ran after them in the pen and that's when the little nanny got bit. Luckily, small enough area I could snatch him up off her. Not the case when they are out of the penned area, since they have acres to run, and there's no way I can keep up. It's a tough cause to convince them the bucket of food you have is better than green pasture.

I have been taking him out to feed with me. The goat pen isn't something he can get in to with the gate closed, so it's been off-leash. No problems, stays right with me, doesn't give them a second glance. He's listening just like he should be, so outside of doing his job, he's fine.

I think there was some miscommunication here. The dog does not get to work them daily, as they are currently penned. We have coyote problems and all 4 are coming up on kidding (babies). One within the month. The LGD isn't a reliable protector yet (nor would I expect her to be as young as she is) and I can't afford to lose babies to predators. Once the LGD is reliable, then we can do turn out and collect them in at the end of the day. Honestly, I don't need help with that since even the new ones are coming to the "Holy Bucket" of feed easily. They needed more time to warm up, but can't have them running loose on the road either. We are working on more fencing to keep them in for pasturing, and he'll probably get to work more when that time comes.

Also, the one who mentioned a child in the family with 4H goats, I have some that size as well, 150 or so lbs dairy goats. The big ones are notorious for squeezing through the fence and climbing over the gate, they also can spring over shorter fences like deer. Agile creatures.

On the other topic, Rick may have had some good ideas. Would be nice if they weren't covered completely in BS.
You talk about military (assuming Navy) so you know the acronym KISS. No need to be verbose if you want to be "straight to the point." Not everyone has the time to try to pick out the potentially useful information out of a diatribe of "it's your fault". Thank you for the newsflash, I had no idea that something in my training was lacking before you mentioned it approximately 4 times.

DH is due home sometime tonight from his military school. We'll see if there's a behavior shift when he gets home. I'm not so sure it was a trigger for him to be a little asshole, because DH is gone frequently due to work, so it isn't uncommon for him to be gone for a month or longer at a time. I guess time will tell.
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Old 09-28-2017, 02:09 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Like the video Matt! Loving my ACD/BC. Much more fiery than the first one I owned as a kid. She has a lot of control over how she bites. She would rather give a quick bite on the tug and run off for me to throw it, but learned very fast to do a full and longer bite. She gets a little more bored with repitituon than the Mal and is somewhat pig headed when she thinks I'm asking her to do something she can't understand immediately. I have to be a little more creative. She loves to play or eat anything though and is crazy physical bouncing of of anything in her way.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:38 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Re: Back to basics?

BaaaHaaaaHaaaa! Great Post, Ashley! You sure hit that nail on the head.

We had good luck with running some electric wire to create escape proof fencing. We have a good charger that has a very respectable shock on it. They hit it once and won't hit it again. Cheap to install and might help deter the Yotes.

Matt's video was extremely educational.
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