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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New Aquisition!
Let me 1st say that I both have the space and time (time, after all, is relative, que no?) for Zero...

A good friend of mine has had what she's been calling a AKC "King
Shepherd" for 2.5 years, since he was a pup. They bought him from a
breeder. I'm the 1st to admit I have no idea what a "king" shephered is
supposed to be, so I'll be Googling it.

Anyway, long story short, they no longer have the time for him (they've
just had a new baby), so I adopted Zero!

1) He's over 100 lbs, and 25" at the shoulders. He's very looooong.
He, however, does NOT have the sloping back like the typical Am. showline
GSD. His ears are NOT elephant ears as well...

2) He's had NO OB/training of any sort. He is the typical non-trained dog:
  • Jumps up on people
  • Begs for food
  • Jumps on couch/bed
  • Charges through doors 1st
  • Pulls (and I mean PULLS!) you on walks

I've had him for 1 week now. And there has been DRASTIC changes in his
behavior. For example, just one 15 minute session w/a choke collar (I'm
saving up for a GOOD STRONG prong) has him walking next to me in a
perfect fuss!

My intention was not to train the heel yet, just good manners on a leash,
but he is SO DARN SMART, he figured right away that he gets praise from
me only at that location. I'm not poping the lease to correct, just only as I
change direction in my walk:
  • Walking straight, all is fine. He get's, "YESSS, good
    fuss"
  • Suddenly I turn left, pop the collar twice, and he's
    right there, eyes on me, walking at my hips.

He's already bonding w/me (my wife has seen a big difference), which I
believe is the reason why he's picking up so quick - he's willing to please.
I'm trying, in every situation, to establish myself as the pack leader to
him; ie: not allowed on couch, not allowed on bed, I go through doors 1st,
etc...

The dog introdutions went very smoothly. My Black Lab, Border Collie, and
sable GSD are all non-dog agressive, and so is Zero. He actually ignores
them unless they are doing a "puppy dance" in his face.

His nerves are strong. I walk him to the local park, which is deserted in the
AM, and take him up onto the "jungle gym" - sway bridge, etc. He does
NOT hesitate at all!

I'm so exited that all the training techniques/theologies I've been learning
(and still...) on Ed Frawley's Leerburg site, and Mike Schoonbrood's Working Dog Forum
are getting me QUICK, QUICK, QUICK results!

BTW, my friend has lost his "papers" in a move. How would I go about
obtaining copies? And can you tell by AKC papers the pedigree of the dog?
I am totally assuming Am. Showlines, but can anyone "see" anything in his
stance/face/posture that would suggest German/working lines (see #1 above)?







And one more thing: all dogs are going to be "fixed" ASAP.

I'm off to the park w/him now - and taking my camera too!
 

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A "king shepherd" is nothing more than a German shepherd that is much bigger than it's supposed to be. According to the "breed standard," the King Shepherd's origin comes from several different breeds. Although there are some differences in opinion regarding the exact breed make-up, it is generally believed that the King's breed make-up includes German Shepherds of American lines, crossed with Malamutes and/or a Flock Guardian breed (i.e Great Pyrenees), which were then bred back to German Shepherds of European descent. The king shepherd is not recognized by any registry but its own (AKSC - American King Shepherd Club), but if this particular dog does not have any outcrosses in its lineage, then it may have AKC papers. I'm not sure how you would go about getting them, though.

Some links:
http://americankingshepherdclub.com/
http://www.kingshepherd.com/
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/kingshepherd.htm
http://www.arba.org/KingShepherd1BS.htm
http://www.thepetprofessor.com/breed_profiles/dogs/king_shepherd.aspx
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Kristen Cabe said:
A "king shepherd" is nothing more than a German shepherd that is much bigger than it's supposed to be ...but if this particular dog does not have any outcrosses in its lineage, then it may have AKC papers.
Thanks Kristen,
Zero is AKC registered, so I'm not sure HOW the lineage worked???
I'm going to get my friend to dig up all her info she can, including the breeder
name. She's knows the papers are "in a box" in her house somewhere - I
know that feeling!!!

She called him a King Shepherd, but she's admittidly not too dog savvy, all
she knows is that she wanted a GSD, told her husband to buy one, and they found a
breeder
.

I've been looking at pix of King Shepherds, and Zero is by far the BEST
looking dog compared to them. He's smaller than the King breed standard
as well. So, according to their standard, he's disqualified:

SIZE

The minimum height for males is 27 inches, at the highest point of the shoulder blade, with an ideal height of 29 inches or more preferred. For females the minimum height is 25 inches, at the aforementioned point, with an ideal height of 27 inches or more preferred. Any male or female not meeting the minimum height requirements must be disqualified.

DISQUALIFYING FAULTS

Any male measuring less than 27 inches at the shoulders or any female measuring less than 25 inches at the shoulders.
Re-measuring his shoulders, he is actually 24 1/2 inches.

Anyway, I have great OB plans for him! I'll let y'all know what I find. THIS
IS GETTING INTERESTING!!!
 

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She may be calling him a King then because he is so much bigger than the GSD standard calls for. Who knows. If you can get ahold of the breeder, you should be able to find out his litter number and get his AKC papers that way I would think.
 

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As far as I know a "King" shepherd is not considered a GSD even though they do have alot of GSD in them.Your dog does not look like any pic of a King Shepherd that I have seen.Maybe they meant "king sized"??
 
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Ok, don't quote me on this, but during my puppy searches of long ago, this guy's website kept coming up; they were just huge GSDs, which he called "King Shepherds." Way back when, they were just GSDs that someone continually bred the biggest until they were 125lbs. I think, if I remember correctly, that he just *calls* them King Shepherds as his own marketing thing...

This dog doesn't look like anything to me except a GSD. Although he doesn't look particularly fat, I don't see how he weighs that much at that height. He must really be looooong. I'll see if I can find this moron's website and post it. Some really ridiculous, almost amusing pics.

Martin, congrats on the acquisition! At least in the learning dept. he sounds GSD, so who cares what he is! :) Nice looking face, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Selena van Leeuwen Said:
?

It's ok Selena, I won't get offended... Say what you want to say!

Jenni Williams Said:
Ok, don't quote me on this, but during my puppy searches of long ago, this guy's website kept coming up; they were just huge GSDs, which he called "King Shepherds." Way back when, they were just GSDs that someone continually bred the biggest until they were 125lbs. I think, if I remember correctly, that he just *calls* them King Shepherds as his own marketing thing...

This dog doesn't look like anything to me except a GSD. Although he doesn't look particularly fat, I don't see how he weighs that much at that height. He must really be looooong. I'll see if I can find this moron's website and post it. Some really ridiculous, almost amusing pics.

Martin, congrats on the acquisition! At least in the learning dept. he sounds GSD, so who cares what he is! :) Nice looking face, too.
Ok, again w/the generalities on MY part, I'm taking my friends word on Zero's
weight. She SAID, "he's 100 lbs!!!" - so I'm just assuming she had an accurate
weight :| She could of said, "he seems like 100 lbs"! :oops:

Once I find my tape measure (I'm having a brain fart!!!), I'll measure his
length.

Here are some fresh pix from today. Since I've really only seen pix of
GSD on the internet, can some of you dog people take a good look, and
see if you can tell the real GSD from a King Shepherd:






Jenni Williams Said:
Martin, congrats on the acquisition! At least in the learning dept. he sounds GSD, so who cares what he is! Nice looking face, too.
BTW, I do NOT want to give the impression that I'm becoming disapointed
w/Zero, just because of the term, "king" - I'm very exited to have him and
greatly appreciative of my friend who parted w/him. She left my house the
day she and her husband dropped Zero off w/tears in her eyes :cry:
 

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I would get a little of that untucked belly off him, I think. How old is he? It would be good if he had a waistline before his joints protest from the load.

This is not criticism. I know he is new to you. It's just helpful thoughts, I hope.

Seen a lot of joint problems! Weight management is a good thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Connie Sutherland Said:
I would get a little of that untucked belly off him, I think. How old is he? It would be good if he had a waistline before his joints protest from the load.

This is not criticism. I know he is new to you. It's just helpful thoughts, I hope.

Seen a lot of joint problems! Weight management is a good thing.
I totally agree. He's gonna be on RAW within the next few month. Before I
got him, my friend would have food available all day, w/no exercise for him,
and table scraps after their dinner :eek:

He's 2 1/2 years old (3 years in Feb '07). Should I go slow w/the exercize,
or start off jogging and stuff w/him emmediately?
 
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Yeah, what she said. :D

Not a criticism at all, Martin. I'll be curious to hear how tall he really is. Really it was just a curiousity thing. My moose is around 28" at the shoulder...and 95lbs. Of course it all depends on how we measure. :) Again, congrats and good luck with him. Already sounds like he's doing better. I'm calling him a German Shepherd, for the record. :wink:

If he's that big, I'd still go easy on the hardcore running for a little while, or at least work him up to it. Caleb's xrays showed at 28mos that he was still growing. :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Jenni Williams Said:
Yeah, what she said. :D

Not a criticism at all, Martin. I'll be curious to hear how tall he really is. Really it was just a curiousity thing. My moose is around 28" at the shoulder...and 95lbs. Of course it all depends on how we measure. :) Again, congrats and good luck with him. Already sounds like he's doing better... :wink:
Once my wife get's home from the Bay Area, I'll have HER measure, that's
if she can find the tape measure I've lost. She has a fabric one that should be
used anyway :lol:
Jenni Williams Said:
Jenni Williams said:
I'm calling him a German Shepherd, for the record. :wink:
Maybe I'll start a poll :wink:
 
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Gee, thanks for the link, Connie. :roll: What is the MATTER with people???

Instead of a poll, Martin, let's do a real experiment. Let's give our dogs steroids and see if they look any more like King Shepherds....(whatever the hell those are anyway...)
 

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I had heard of Shiloh shepherds, but not king shepherds. I fostered a big GSD/Great Pyrenees mix a while back that looks a bit like those king shepherds if they supposedly have some Great Pyr in them. Over 100 lbs at 11 months old and had the Great Pyr's double dew claws as well. He was a pretty neat dog, actually. This was Simba:



 

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Martin, Best of luck with Zero. Have fun, that is the most important thing! I agree that keeping him on the thin side would be best for him.

Debbie
 
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