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Recall exercises on 6 month old pups...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6269570598293483975
Enjoy!!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6269570598293483975
Enjoy!!!
Silly indeed. Early wrecked joint? They may have been wrecked to begin with. Plain ignorance or lame excuses to hide weaknesses in breeding, I should say. So what about in the olden and golden days of these great working breeds when farmers brought their pups at a very early age in the working field to learn from the adults? Wreck joints?Selena van Leeuwen said:It is really great they can do it, but as a silly European..I can´t stop thinking about the early wrecked joints
Just a slight correction, Selena. No routines, no drills, no food, tug or toy rewards like you do. While I'll bet your pups will jump off and rather disregard you more so if you don't have food or toy rewards, those pups obey regardless of difficulties. Now think what effect will this kind of foundation bring in future serious work between the dog/man teams. If a pictures paints a thousand words, that video should say millions. Just think....Selena van Leeuwen said:..and still can´t see the advantage for an early ob routine like this..are they gonna be circusdogs or workingdogs?
Oke, you have to learn to do this, right?Jose Alberto Reanto said:Silly indeed. Early wrecked joint? They may have been wrecked to begin with. Plain ignorance or lame excuses to hide weaknesses in breeding, I should say. So what about in the olden and golden days of these great working breeds when farmers brought their pups at a very early age in the working field to learn from the adults? Wreck joints?Selena van Leeuwen said:It is really great they can do it, but as a silly European..I can´t stop thinking about the early wrecked joints
Maybe so, but why let them do unnatural thing which can hurt or misdevelop joints in the growth.
If I remember correctly, "circus dogs" was coined by the late Col. Konrad Most in his book "Training Dogs-A manual" to refer to sportdogs, no offense meant.
I don´t know the man or the book. And why should i be offended? I think these are more like circustricks, than usefull for a workingdog.
Just a slight correction, Selena. No routines, no drills, no food, tug or toy rewards like you do. While I'll bet your pups will jump off and rather disregard you more so if you don't have food or toy rewards, those pups obey regardless of difficulties. Now think what effect will this kind of foundation bring in future serious work between the dog/man teams. If a pictures paints a thousand words, that video should say millions. Just think....Selena van Leeuwen said:..and still can´t see the advantage for an early ob routine like this..are they gonna be circusdogs or workingdogs?
Best regards... :wink:
That's just exactly what that video should have told you. To develop "misdeveloped joint" when working them young is a misconception. It may have been that those joints were already a "wreck" to begin with. Obviously those pups were worked even earlier to be able to achieve such levels of agility, confidence, trust and bond with their handlers and obedience as seen in that video. If they have wrecked their jonts as you say due to "ünnatural training" and working them early, in no way could those exercises be possible now. Of course, just like in any endeavor, it goes to say the handlers should know what they're doing.Selena van Leeuwen said:Maybe so, but why let them do unnatural thing which can hurt or misdevelop joints in the growth.
I didn't know that a dog obeying its handler to come to him while combining agility would constitute a trick. I hope that training a dog to scale a fence or a high wall to come to the aid of its handler in defense work will not be regarded a trick as well. I hope dogs that goes in confidence remotely controlled by their handlers while going thru rubbles and collapsed structures doing rescues will not be treated as circusdogs. Also, I hope that when you put your pup alone with access to nearby obstacles like logs, chairs, ladders or whatever, you wouldn't be surprised to see your pup on top of any of them on its own. By then, you would have realized that agility is natural and dogs are naturally drawn to man.Selena van Leeuwen said:I don´t know the man or the book. And why should i be offended? I think these are more like circustricks, than usefull for a workingdog.
Definitely!!! How? First, by not listening to some common beliefs but instead hold that leash and work those dogs/pups. It's common knowledge that these creatures (left to themsleves) would be accomplished hunters and predators at about a year of age, else they wouldn't survive. It's like as if the Creator, in his Infinite Wisdom, made these creatures helpless at birth when they're not.Selena van Leeuwen said:Oke, you have to learn to do this, right?
Too much pressure? Don't you know pups cannot be forced into an exercise? Was there any trickery, bribery or coercion done by any handler in that video, or was it just plain recalling the pup?Selena van Leeuwen said:And you say your self "those pups obey regardless of difficulties", so it is an ob exercise, right?
And they must obey...regardless what so ever, so it is an excercise in the obligationphase, right?
IMO if there is to much pressure on young dogs, they won´t grow out to their full genetic potention. So puppies doesn´t do anything except play a lot.
Of course, I'm into working the dogs and making them functional in any environment and in any prevailing working conditions. You're into routines and titling them. So who's into circus training?Selena van Leeuwen said:To summarize: our views on raising a puppy to working dogs are like day and night difference. :wink:
Please don't make assumptions about other peoples dogs, I am sick of these generalizations between "real dogs" and "sport dogs", and frankly its pretty annoying.Jose Alberto Reanto said:Just a slight correction, Selena. No routines, no drills, no food, tug or toy rewards like you do. While I'll bet your pups will jump off and rather disregard you more so if you don't have food or toy rewards, those pups obey regardless of difficulties.
Well, I made a sharp retort to this earlier and then edited it away immediately because it seemed to be between Al and Selena.Jose Alberto Reanto said:....... While I'll bet your pups will jump off and rather disregard you more so if you don't have food or toy rewards.....
so because selena is "popular and acceptable" in this forum, it's impossible for you to be rude? one has nothing to do with the other. as you have proven...Jose Alberto Reanto said:By the way, Selena, know that I'm not trying to be rude in this exchange. That cannot happen since you're more popular and acceptable in this forum than I will ever be.
If someone posts that what you do are simply tricks intended for circus dogs, then be grateful if that's exactly what you do. Otherwise, you have every right to clear it up... if you're man enough to stand for what you believe in.Tim Martens said:so because selena is "popular and acceptable" in this forum, it's impossible for you to be rude? one has nothing to do with the other. as you have proven...
Go ahead and do what you want. It's none of my business.....Tim Martens said:keep doing whatever works for you in your little corner of the world. meanwhile, i'll keep trying to position myself to get my hands on one of selena's dogs...
circusdogs
While I'll bet your pups will jump off and rather disregard you
AL'S VIDEO SHOULD SIMPLY HAVE RECIEVED PRAISE. THAT'S IT.whatever works for you in your little corner of the world.