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would you withhold food for training purposes??

  • yes i think it can be helpful

    Votes: 44 80.0%

  • no i dont like it

    Votes: 11 20.0%
  • Total voters
    55

Witholding food for teaching

13253 Views 87 Replies 25 Participants Last post by  Maren Bell Jones, 
B
Ok after the thread titled "drive"got silly today it made me curious how many people have no problems witholding food for a day or so in aid of teaching new things etc.And how many where against it.
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Joby Becker
poll is not complete enough Brad...

I think it can be helpful for training in some cases for sure, but I ALSO do not "like" it....



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Peter Cavallaro
thats why i'm not polling either way, poorly constructed question like a government survey where you can only respond as just liking something to really liking it - propaganda is all that poll amounts to.
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Dave Colborn
I agree with Joby.

I like that it's available to me as a trainer if I need this. I don't like to have to even have a dog skip breakfast to want to take food for training.
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B
Thanks Joby any ideas for not being complete enough??

I dont like it either but its a tool like many other methods.
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Joby Becker
brad robert said:
Thanks Joby any ideas for not being complete enough??

I dont like it either but its a tool like many other methods.
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It's your poll...LOL

I can sum it up...1 or 2 people feel it has NO value.

The rest of us probably don't like to do it, and also would prefer with any dog we own, not to have this become necessary...

The bulk of us would probably not feel all that bad about having the dog skip a meal or two to get something really popping for the dog, provided they get good payouts in the training..

A few of us would go to extremes to try to make something work, while others would try some other techniques and/or would move the dog.

some of us would feed ONLY during training, if feasible, with the food used and the work being done...

I am not a very accomplished trainer persay, and I do like dogs...

but I will not feel sorry for a nutty dog that would rather try to bite me than take food from my hand, even if it means he wont eat for 5 days...that is my way of getting him to stop acting nutty...



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B
Joby Becker said:
It's your poll...LOL

I can sum it up...1 or 2 people feel it has NO value.

The rest of us probably don't like to do it, and also would prefer with any dog we own, not to have this become necessary...

The bulk of us would probably not feel all that bad about having the dog skip a meal or two to get something really popping for the dog, provided they get good payouts in the training..

A few of us would go to extremes to try to make something work, while others would try some other techniques and/or would move the dog.

some of us would feed ONLY during training, if feasible, with the food used and the work being done...

I am not a very accomplished trainer persay, and I do like dogs..
but I will not feel sorry for a nutty dog that would rather try to bite me than take food from my hand, even if it means he wont eat for 5 days...that is my way of getting him to stop acting nutty...
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I completely agree with what you have written in regards to the training aspects 100% spot on for me!!

But Im not going to reword the question i want it simple and not clouded its either yes you would or no you dont or would not. Life and training should be pretty simple and i would like to keep it that way

Peter propaganda?? Move away from the bottle mate!
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Joby Becker
brad robert said:
I completely agree with what you have written in regards to the training aspects 100% spot on for me!!

But Im not going to reword the question i want it simple and not clouded its either yes you would or no you dont or would not. Life and training should be pretty simple and i would like to keep it that way

Peter propaganda?? Move away from the bottle mate!
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Fine with me...so the question is would I or would I not...LOL..

For what duration? :)



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B
lets not bring that into it lol simple remember
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Joby Becker
seriously? LOL..that is not relevant..???

I would withold it until right after the "click" and then withold it again until right after the next "click"...which could be 2 seconds later...:)

ok ok...1 day no prob for me.

2 days... possible but pushing it...

But I do not train anything that is that serious for me to have to really push it, and if I did, I would look for another way..or do something else the dog is more suited for...or get another dog if it was that important to do whatever I was trying to do with the dog...



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B
Not clicker training now too:grin: lmao
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Melissa Thom
I can only speak to what I do and don't do normally. I wouldn't leave it out of my bag of tricks but it wouldn't be the first thing or even the 3rd thing I go to. Usually I have something in my fridge of tasty enough value to a dog to at least get interest to the point where the dog is interested and learning.

I do have one dog with very mild food drive. Mild to the point of yeah, you probably could starve him to death before he'd show interest in what you want, as a puppy he was often difficult to keep on food and it got him in trouble a few times. Instead I found what floated his particular boat was rag games, at about 8 months old a moderate interest in premium sharp cheddar, and he turned out to be one of the best dogs I've ever owned.
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Thomas Barriano
I'm not voting but I'll comment :)
Tracking is the only thing I'd withhold food for more then a day.
Using the daily food ration during (Obedience) training only is a whole other subject. I think that is legitimate
Withholding food to build drive for protection?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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L
I voted no. My dogs rarely have to skip a meal and I never deliberately fast them.

I guess it depends how far you're prepared to go to make a dog work. If I had to starve a dog for two days to get enough food drive to have something to work with, I would get another dog to train. My labx had good food drive but no desire to work. It wasn't worth it to me to make him work, or maybe I didn't try hard enough, but I was ok with just letting him be a dog.
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Brian Anderson
If your dog is not food driven which would be the only reason I could see to withold food for training. I do fast our dogs 1 day a week. But if the dog isn't food driven I find whatever it is that does and work with that.
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Joby Becker
Thomas Barriano said:
I'm not voting but I'll comment :)
Tracking is the only thing I'd withhold food for more then a day.
Using the daily food ration during (Obedience) training only is a whole other subject. I think that is legitimate
Withholding food to build drive for protection?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Click to expand...
Thomas,...you gotta one track mind on this subject LOL...I dont think anyone was saying to build drive for protection...seriously...:)

What about for teaching the OUT? Just curious...

I have talked to a couple people that have done it or seen it done, with dogs that were extremely difficult to OUT. It was suggested to me as one method to try with my dog, by people I respect very highly, who own and train dogs similar to mine..



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Debbie Skinner
Joby Becker said:
Thomas,...you gotta one track mind on this subject LOL...I dont think anyone was saying to build drive for protection...seriously...:)

What about for teaching the OUT? Just curious...

I have talked to a couple people that have done it or seen it done, with dogs that were extremely difficult to OUT. It was suggested to me as one method to try with my dog, by people I respect very highly, who own and train dogs similar to mine..
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You mean plug their nose with hotdog so they have to "out"? \\:D/

Seriously I never had luck with asking a strong/high drive dog to trade a bite full of suit for a snack. It might work once or twice. I really wouldn't want a dog outing for food.
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Joby Becker
Debbie Skinner said:
You mean plug their nose with hotdog so they have to "out"? \\:D/

Seriously I never had luck with asking a strong/high drive dog to trade a bite full of suit for a snack. It might work once or twice. I really wouldn't want a dog outing for food.
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I did not try that method personally...but it was seriously suggested to me, by people that I do respect...



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Debbie Skinner
Joby Becker said:
I did not try that method personally...but it was seriously suggested to me, by people that I do respect...
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I tried in when it was suggested to me about 10+ years ago.
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Maren Bell Jones
Joby Becker said:
but I will not feel sorry for a nutty dog that would rather try to bite me than take food from my hand, even if it means he wont eat for 5 days...that is my way of getting him to stop acting nutty...
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This I understand, especially since it's going to likely be a one time deal. Not feeding a dog for 48-60 hours before a track or obedience every week like what was described on the other thread is excessive IMO and if you need to do this to a dog to get them to work...get a new dog or reevaluate your training methods.
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