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Discussion Starter · #1 ·


This is a pic that is supposed to be a german wardog on the russian front in WW2.

What kind of dog do you think this is?

Greg
 

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Most likely a GSD cross, I heard the GSDs were bred with other dogs so their appearance wouldn't be so easily recognized.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sarah Hall said:
Most likely a GSD cross, I heard the GSDs were bred with other dogs so their appearance wouldn't be so easily recognized.
Where did you hear this?Im just curiously interested in more info on these war dogs.

I would say just guessing,that it had quite a bit of Mal in there.

Greg
 

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Greg Long said:
Sarah Hall said:
Most likely a GSD cross, I heard the GSDs were bred with other dogs so their appearance wouldn't be so easily recognized.
Where did you hear this?Im just curiously interested in more info on these war dogs.

I would say just guessing,that it had quite a bit of Mal in there.

Greg
Well, histories of war dogs I've read talked about GSD, Dobes, and Belgian Shepherds a lot. I can try to find those links; I didn't save & file them the way I do now. :oops:

http://www.geocities.com/athens/1878/wardog.html#wwii
 

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I did some therapy work at a nursing home where there was an old German captain that worked with wardogs. He said the dogs would be crossed to not obviously look like GSDs because the enemy would kill any GSD on sight. Mals were popular because (at that time) most of them had very little black, so they just looked like a dog and not a BAD dog to shoot. Remember wardogs not only would actually charge into battle (more popular before guns), but they carried important messages from troop to troop, kind of like a carrier pigeon. I think I remember the old captain saying that they bred some for improper ear carriage/cartilage because it made them look like collies, etc. Also, you have to remember in GSDs and Mals the cartilage can be broken and the ear will hang/fly.
 

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Sarah Hall said:
I did some therapy work at a nursing home where there was an old German captain that worked with wardogs. He said the dogs would be crossed to not obviously look like GSDs because the enemy would kill any GSD on sight. Mals were popular because (at that time) most of them had very little black, so they just looked like a dog and not a BAD dog to shoot. Remember wardogs not only would actually charge into battle (more popular before guns), but they carried important messages from troop to troop, kind of like a carrier pigeon. I think I remember the old captain saying that they bred some for improper ear carriage/cartilage because it made them look like collies, etc. Also, you have to remember in GSDs and Mals the cartilage can be broken and the ear will hang/fly.
I think the Germans used Pit crosses too along the Russian border to pull sleds. Where did I READ that? I swear I'm not making it up.
 
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Pits are a VERY old breed; the APBT is newer, but the type has been around for eons. Look at really old art if you question that. I think I'm going to breed Caleb with a pit; that's one badass looking dog! :lol: It looks like a muscular dutch/GSDish type thingy. :|
 

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Mike Schoonbrood said:
How long have pits been around? They are an american breed right? So is it possible they did that that far back?? I don't know anything about pits, just speculating.
Staffordshire is in England.
 

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Connie Sutherland said:
Mike Schoonbrood said:
How long have pits been around? They are an american breed right? So is it possible they did that that far back?? I don't know anything about pits, just speculating.
Staffordshire is in England.
Then why is it called an American Pitbull Terrier? I don't see the word "pit" in the name "Staffordshire Terrier" :p

I personally dislike Pit's... I would never own one, not my kinda dog, I don't like that look at all, I've done bitework with a brindle Presa Canario before, the bitework was good, but I didn't care for the dog as far as owning one went.
 

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Mike Schoonbrood said:
How long have pits been around? They are an american breed right? So is it possible they did that that far back?? I don't know anything about pits, just speculating.
But you are definitely right that the APBT was the icon of American dog-dom for at least half a century. They were called the "Nanny Dog;" the Buster Brown dog (Tigue?) was an APBT. There are a zillion pictures of APBTs standing in front of the American flag......

QUOTE:    The breed was one of high visibility. Buster Brown shoes put the image of its mascot Tigre, an American Pit Bull Terrier, in every shoe to enhance its image as a sturdy, dependable shoe; RCA used Nipper, a pit bull of unknown ancestor, to illustrate the clarity of sound emulating from its phonograph by showing the dog being fooled into thinking he was actually hearing his master’s voice and not a recording.

The breed was used to illustrate American neutrality withour fear in 1914 as well as the toughness of Levi’s jeans, and was also portrayed as a “defender of Old Glory”.

In 1917 Sgt Stubby, a pit bull of unknown descent, become a war hero for saving several soldiers’ lives and capturing a German spy while serving in the trenches of France with 26th Yankee Division.

About two years later came a sturdy white pooch with a patch over one eye named Petey, who played alongside a loveable bunch of kids called The Little Rascals. The American Pit Bull Terrier was now an international icon, presenting America to the world. END

from http://home.broadpark.no/~chorstad/history.htm
 

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Mike Schoonbrood said:
Then why is it called an American Pitbull Terrier? I don't see the word "pit" in the name "Staffordshire Terrier" :p..........
There are as many "official histories" as there are APBTs (almost).

QUOTE: The terrier part of the name came from its ability to hunt small game and was one of the reasons why ratters knew it would excel in the rat Pit. The larger the number of kill the better the dog placed in the match. Due to the constraints of space and the agility of Black & Tan and now extinct White terriers of England these terriers were often being mixed with the old bull baiting dogs to achieve dogs which were premium for these purposes. 

It is believed that this practice of mixing bulldog's and terriers began in the town of Staffordshire England and became known as the Staffordshire Bull and terrier.

Due to the agility and gameness of this new found breed many began to also fight dogs with each other. Soon dog on dog fighting and ratting became so popular that practically all Inns and Pubs were equipped with a fighting pit.

As colonization of America and Canada began these people also brought their dogs. These dogs soon became known by the name of "Pitbull Terriers"

As time progressed a gentleman by the name Chauncy Bennett founded the UKC in 1898 with the American PitBull Terrier as its foundation dog breed. Although some are fortunate enough to own a UKC registered Pit's the majority of the public has chose to not register their dogs due to financial constraints and subsequent loss of bloodline determination. END

from http://www.americanpitbullregistry.com/Pit Bull History.htm
 
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Mike, a Presa is not a Pitbull. Not really even close. I see why you might not like them, but you're really holding the dogs responsible for the trash that owns them and perpetuates this image. I'd be willing to bet that you've known a well-bred pitbull even casually. Hell, there aren't even that many around anymore, so you might never have even SEEN one. I'll tell you that they're not bred for "big heads," ridiculous weight, and they're not all out of "Gator" or "Jeep." (Which is funny, if you know pits at all, b/c there are TONS of Gators and Jeeps, and they almost never mean the good ones! I had a Corvino pit several years ago who was often mistaken for an ABD, because he was very athletically built, tall and slender, very lean, and didn't have to work especially hard to hold up his head. I am going to stop here, or I will start ranting and NO ONE will be able to stop me :lol: ! I even did my final college paper on APBTs, and WOW did I start some controversy :wink: . I suggest anyone interested (or anyone who thinks they don't like pitbulls) read Richard Stratton's books The American Pitbull Terrier and I can't remember the name of the other one, but they're both GREAT books. Talk about a breed that's been RUINED :x :evil: ...
 

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Jenni, I don't care about the image, the reputation, or any other factor. Fact of the matter is, I don't like the way pitbulls look. I like the way shepherds look, tall, sleek, pointy nose, pointy ears, proud and handsome. Pits are not a dog I would consider owning purely for aesthetic reasons. They're just not "cute" or "cool" looking to me. They're just muscular weird lookin dogs to me. I don't have anything against people who own them and I'm sure there are some great pits, a friend of mine's brother has one (never met the dog) that is supposed to be an awesome pet... but it's just not for me. And to me Presa's look like Pits on steroids... and I still wouldn't own a Presa, Cane Corso, Pitbull, Staffordshire, Bulldog, or any mastiff breed either, no matter how related, unrelated, friendly, aggressive, social, stable, strong or pretty they are supposed to be :p
 

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What Kind of Dog?

Jenni,

I have to agree with you. While I don't own a pit and am a dobe fanatic, my son has 2 purebred pits and I think they are awesome dogs. They are both stable, friendly and loving, although they are very protective of their family as they should be. My son has 2 small children, 6 years and 2 months and the dogs are so good with them. My son uses them for hog dogs, but they are also members of the household. However, if he puts them on a hog, no matter how big, it's coming down.
 

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That pic is very much like many old WWI and WWII pics of German Shepherds. You have to keep in mind that WORKING ability was MUCH more highly prized then pretty. Personelly, I love the look of that dog. :wink:
 
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Mike, Mike, Mike, LOOKS?!? EEK! :roll: Sorry, ol pal, looks are not a reason...sounds like somthin' a show person would say :twisted: :lol: I maintain that even crotchety old Mike would like the old time dogs, but where the hell are they? :cry: No one realized what mine was; he looked like a normal dog with floppy little ears and a patch over one eye...I always enjoyed telling people what he was. It *is* the image you don't like based on what you said, because they have started to look like this lately to *perpetuate* the stupid image of the scummy breeders nowadays. This look is not what they were bred for. The ADBA doesn't care what they look like; the APBT was bred for work, and has no physical conformation requirements except the ability to work, which these muscular circus freaks would have a tough time with. <sigh> I hope we can still be friends... :cry: :lol:

Linda, nice to see someone normal still remembers what these dogs were bred for :D .

Bob, I'm with you 100%. I think that dog is gorgeous!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The dog I posted looks more like a Mal to me.

I had heard from some fairly reliable sources that the germans used Mals and even crossed them into their GSDs.

I have also seen a few Mals with huge heads and mouths that look like crocadiles.

I was just curious.

I doubt their is any pit in that dog but its all just speculation anyway.

Greg
 

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Jenni Williams said:
Mike, Mike, Mike, LOOKS?!? EEK! :roll: Sorry, ol pal, looks are not a reason...sounds like somthin' a show person would say :twisted: :lol:
Looks are a damn good reason, I'm never gonna own a dog that I don't think is a cool looking breed. I like all dogs, but I wouldn't own all dogs, I would only own a breed that I think is a good looking dog, n pits just don't do it for me. I think working line GSD's are great looking dogs, very cool physique, intimidating and just overall a "wow" looking dog, same goes with Mal's and Dutchie's and Dobie's... but I don't like the physique of a pitbull. Is it so hard to believe that someone doesn't like the same dogs you do? Would you still like the pitbull if they were 40lbs n scrawny but with the same temprement? I doubt it. Appearance makes the breed, n not everyone has to like the same breeds that you do.
 
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