What effect does nuetering have on a dog's temperment?

9500 Views 52 Replies 10 Participants Last post by susan tuck, Apr 19, 2006

Stacia Porter

Discussion Starter · Apr 17, 2006

I've seen a lot of articles and messageboard replies in various places on the 'net concerning the "aggressiveness" of un-neutered dogs. It got me wondering what, if any, effect neutering has on a dog's temperment.

I have a 12 mth old un-neutered male and was told that if we were going to neuter, not to do it until after 2 years of age b/c it might affect drives. I'm not sure how true that is, either. The breeder about had a heart attack when I asked about a spay/neuter agreement during his purchase (she couldn't understand why anyone would want to sterilize a dog).

So I'm turning to you experienced dog people: is there a difference? Do you neuter your dogs? If so, at what age?

21 - 40 of 53 Posts

Connie Sutherland

· #21 · Apr 18, 2006

Jenni Williams said:
....Connie, I was not quoting anyone on this forum :? :| . I have heard this ridiculous, *obvious* statement countless times from people with medical degrees, and I can't think of anything but "duh" to say when I'm told that...it's like saying that you'll never be killed in plane crash if you don't fly. :wink:

OK, sorry, then.....my mistake. Another poster had made the point and I thought the remark was about her post. (I must be guilty myself to be so quick on the draw!

)

Kristen Cabe

· #22 · Apr 18, 2006

I was simply responding to the "obvious medical reasons" statement - pointing a few of them out. I also wasn't referring to the studies about medical issues in my post; I was referring to the many studies that prove that intact animals are involved in more dog bite incidents.

I've always had speutered animals; Jak is the first intact animal I've ever had. He's also the first purebred animal I've ever had. None of my previous animals ever developed problems from being speutered. I'm a firm believer in spay/neuter for pets, because of the reasons that many of you guys have stated! Honestly I think everyone here is on the same page when it comes to speutering.

NOTE: Male dogs aren't the only ones who will wander to find a mate. Females will come to your intact male as well, and dogs can be very creative when it comes to finding a way to breed! :twisted: How else do you think people end up with basset hound or corgi shepherds?! :lol:

Jenni W., your comment about doing vassectomies in dogs instead of castration got me wondering. What about Neutersol? Is the risk the same with it? It's an injection that renders the dog sterile, but does not get rid of the testicles OR the hormones. As a result, it doesn't do squat about behavioral problems if that's a reason why a person is neutering their dog, but it does prevent the dog from impregnating a female.

I'm leary of anything implanted in a person's (or dog's) body as a contraceptive. I've heard bad things about the ones used for women - like they can cause severe infections and even end up making some women unable to have children ever. :?

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Connie Sutherland

· #23 · Apr 18, 2006

Stacia Porter said:
.......this might sound totally and completely ridiculous, but bear with me for a moment. I do know of a contraceptive device in humans that actually has a BETTER pregnancy preventative track record than female tubile ligation: the intrauterine device. Now of course it's not more effective than hysterectomy, but we know that hysterectomy has its risks, as well......

It doesn't sound 100% crazy. I believe the first vasectomy was done on a dog.......

But Kristen is right about the early IUDs (and probably the "improved" ones, too). The Dalkon Shield was recalled after several class-action suits, back in the 70s.

Jeff Oehlsen

· #24 · Apr 18, 2006

So in all seriousness, I see only a small percentage of dogs being any different at all after a neuter/spay.

Without seriousness, I really don't know about hacking off my body parts to avoid cancer, and I have thought that possibly a vet might turn me down for a nueter. She was really cute, and well............ :twisted:

And now for something completely different. www.caninesports.com/SpayNueter.html

Mike Schoonbrood

· #25 · Apr 18, 2006

Jeff Oehlsen said:
www.caninesports.com/SpayNueter.html

Link comes up as a File Not Found?

Stacia Porter

Discussion Starter · #26 · Apr 18, 2006

Jeff Oehlsen said:
So in all seriousness, I see only a small percentage of dogs being any different at all after a neuter/spay.

And now for something completely different. www.caninesports.com/SpayNueter.html

My Abbie didn't change at all after her spay. If anything, she got MORE ornery. She was about 2 years old at the time of the spay. My parents always kept their males in tact, so I have no idea in all honesty. We had one male neutered: our sheltie. He was 6 1/2 at the time and it was only done b/c he had testicular cancer.

I couldn't get the link to work, Jeff

.

Another question in this same vein: Achilles won't try to hump our legs will he? OMG I could just imagine trying to fend off my currently 65 lb dog. Or the neighbors

. I'd never have visitors again...

Mike Schoonbrood

· #27 · Apr 18, 2006

My boy doesn't hump anything... maybe that'll change one day but I doubt it, he salivates when he smells female urine though LOL.

Stacia Porter

Discussion Starter · #28 · Apr 18, 2006

I got the article Jeff was trying to post:

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

It was a misplaced vowel :wink:

G

· #29 · Apr 18, 2006

I have no real life outside of work, so while I'm stuck at the office, I research medical stuff on dogs. I have come across very little to indicate that dogs are any better behaviorally due to neutering. The studies on EARLY spay/neutering however, indicate that it can actually CAUSE abnormal sexual behavioral problems. I have never, ever, had one of my dogs hump anything. I wouldn't tolerate it if they did, but I would treat it with training, not surgery.

As far as those bite statistics, since most "good pet owners" :roll: spay and neuter, their dogs are not out biting people. Not because they're neutered...but because they're supervised. Reminds me of the BSL ideas about buying insurance for dangerous dogs; the dangerous dogs' owners are not going to buy the insurance-the people who'd actually buy it wouldn't let their dogs roam the streets mauling people. So, back to square one.

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Tim Martens

· #30 · Apr 18, 2006

one of our patrol dogs was neutered because of handler aggression. this was before i was in the unit, so i only have others stories to relay. i worked with the dog after the neuter and he seemed fine. after the neuter, there were no more handler aggression issues. of course that could be totally un-related (as in the dog would have submitted to the handler eventually without the neuter), but the handler/trainer were satisfied with the results and felt they did the right thing....

G

· #31 · Apr 18, 2006

If someone did that to you because you talked back, wouldn't you be more careful in the future? :wink:

Jeff Oehlsen

· #32 · Apr 18, 2006

In the past I had so many people try............

Sorry about the link thing, this is something that I was getting weird vibes about a long time ago with other research that was indicating taller dogs and other stuff that I am to silly to remember at the moment. And no, my dog is not trying to hump me.

Tim, do you know a guy named Brad Phelps??? I think he is out there by you, and for some reason, I keep thinking I have asked that before.

Jeff Oehlsen

· #33 · Apr 18, 2006

Dang E's and U's. Never really could type. I am just now getting this whole spalleng thing.

G

· #34 · Apr 18, 2006

"My dog isn't trying to hump me.." From the sounds of it, Jeff, NO ONE is trying...

:lol:

I know the study you mean; it talks about screwed-up development b/c hormones are what closes growth plates. You end up with much taller dogs than they should be, and higher incidences of HD and other bone deformities. Is that the one you mean?

Jeff Oehlsen

· #35 · Apr 18, 2006

Yes, that is the one.

I truely thank God that no one is trying to hump me these days. None of the dogs are in those weird.......you meant women didn't you.

Kristen Cabe

· #36 · Apr 18, 2006

:lol: :lol: Jeff, you can bring humor into anything, can't you?

I've read that article about the bones and growing too tall and all. It is very interesting. Glad you posted it!

About the humping, when we first got Jak, he would "air hump" when he got overly excited, but that only lasted about 3 weeks or so. He also tried to hump my husband a couple of times, and occasionally he'll try to hump Gypsy, but he's never tried to hump me.

My boy doesn't hump anything... maybe that'll change one day but I doubt it, he salivates when he smells female urine though

Jak does this too - does kind of a really quick jaw smacking thing as he's drooling all over himself. LOL! ! ! !

Ok this thread has gotten WAY off topic! LoL

I've heard that speutering before age 2 can affect drives too, Stacia. No one's really commented on that yet, though.

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Woody Taylor

· #37 · Apr 18, 2006

I thought most dog bites were from intact males?

Mike Schoonbrood

· #38 · Apr 18, 2006

Kristen Cabe said:
Jak does this too - does kind of a really quick jaw smacking thing as he's drooling all over himself. LOL! ! ! !

Ok this thread has gotten WAY off topic! LoL

OK Cujo never did the jaw smacking thing until 10 days or so ago when I got my pup... he hadn't seen the pup yet, but she's crawled all over me at the airport so I had girlie puppy scent all over me... I walk into the room n uncrate Cujo n he starts sniffing at me with his jaw quivering n starts salivating all over the place... n im like .... woah OK apparently he likes girls! LOL.

Stacia Porter

Discussion Starter · #39 · Apr 18, 2006

Kristen Cabe said:
:
Jak does this too - does kind of a really quick jaw smacking thing as he's drooling all over himself. LOL! ! ! !
quote]

Growing up my parents had this ORNERY little 5 1/2 lb dachshund/rat terrierr mix named Gizmo. He was the runt of their dachshund's OOPS litter and was born with fused hip joints so mama was gonna let him die. My dad wasn't having that and hand fed this darn dog and carried him around in his pocket! Gizmo lived to be 18 years old (just passed this summer) and was never neutered b/c my dad wouldn't "take away his manhood." He used to do that jaw smacking thing every time his mom peed! OMG it was disgusting!!!!!!!!! He also humped everything that walked, and even things that didnt' (like stuffed animals). And he definitely had "little big dog" syndrome. He also tried to attack everything.

The dog bite thing: I was thinkign that over and I think I might know why most reported dog bites are from in tact males. The people least likely to speuter their animals are ALSO the people least likely to train and keep a watch over their animals. These dogs aren't biting thanks to being kept in tact; they're biting b/c they haven't been trained not to, or b/c they've been abused (or are used for illegal dog fighitng). So IMO it isn't an unneutered male dog problem, it's an owner problem! As for why it's mostly males and not females: don't most people want male dogs for the whole image thing? And don't most dog fight people use males? Females bite, too, and I know I've read that females can be MORE aggressive than males in certain situations (i.e. that two females in na house is WORSE than two males).

I'm interested in the drives thing. I've heard mixed reviews on whether or not neutering affects drives. It makes a huge amount of sense that it affects growth. Hormones generally work in sinc within the body; a change in one affects change in others. This is the same reason that epidruals and narcotics have negative effects when administered to birthing female humans: intereferes with natural horomonal processes present to facilitate the labor and birth process, and the postpartum period (yeah, like any of you wanted or needed to know that).

Woody Taylor

· #40 · Apr 18, 2006

Stacia Porter said:
The dog bite thing: I was thinkign that over and I think I might know why most reported dog bites are from in tact males. The people least likely to speuter their animals are ALSO the people least likely to train and keep a watch over their animals. These dogs aren't biting thanks to being kept in tact; they're biting b/c they haven't been trained not to, or b/c they've been abused (or are used for illegal dog fighitng). So IMO it isn't an unneutered male dog problem, it's an owner problem! As for why it's mostly males and not females: don't most people want male dogs for the whole image thing? And don't most dog fight people use males? Females bite, too, and I know I've read that females can be MORE aggressive than males in certain situations (i.e. that two females in na house is WORSE than two males).

I was kind of a statistician in a former life so I recognize how data can get skewed and not address empirical causality...just throwing that out there about dog bites, because I absolutely believe that spaying/neutering would affect drives, and that sometimes would be attractive, sometimes not, and even if dog bites are the result of $hitty owners, there's a kernel of truth to the notion that taking away testosterone will impact the drives of anything (read up on chemical castration for sex offenders, for example). That's a mammal thing, not a doggy thing.

This thread actually builds off of some stuff in the Diet and Health thread (Connie, shouldn't this thread be moved there?). My own deal is that I live in an urban environment and I don't want there to be a remote possibility that my dog would get pregnant (people might give me grief for not staying on top of my dog 100% of the time, but I think that's a nonsense argument...accidents happen, regardless of vigiliance)

I also don't want my house to become a dog magnet whenever she's in heat...we live on a corner lot with a lot of pedestrian and dog traffic so this is an issue. I do think that it's perfectly responsible and ethical to spay/neuter a dog if you do not have plans to breed and you can handle what I think would be the risk of "watering down" some aggressive aspects of your mutt.

I am very comfortable (as a former kind of statistician) that neutering a female does have positive health benefits, I dont' know about males, haven't studied that. But I'd still do it just because there may be that one day where my dog goes native on me and slips out. I don't think that will happen, but it might, and I don't need the grief.

However...my dog is a family dog first, everything else second, and a dog that I cannot be with 100% of the day and a dog that spends very small chunks of time by herself in the backyard when my wife and I have to take care of our pack members who are not housebroken . So my situation is different from the experts on the board. What I dont' like are sentiments that spaying/neutering is something that's unnecessary or even just for lazy owners. I think it's a very pragmatic and practical action for many different owners to take.

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