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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is sort of a offshoot from another thread.
People talk about wanting PPDs. Do they really understand what this means, or do they just want an aggressive alert dog?
Would you guys and gals in the know, try and explain this a bit.
Also, how do the responsible PPD trainers weed out the ego trippers and macho egos of those wanting a bada$$ dog as compaired to those in serious need.
 

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This is a good question Bob. What I would want in a PPD is mainly for my wife who works during the day and I work at night. We live out in the country and have had an attempted robbery less than a quarter of a mile from my house. :eek: My friend happen to have his gun and shot the robber (didn't kill him) we also had a kidnaping about five miles from our house.

I want a dog that acts normal around people until we give him a command to go civil or as a last resort to attack and I want to be able to take him anywhere.

We have come home and people be in our yard snooping around. That part is taken care of, with my dog (Bear) I bought from Jerry but I can't take him places with a lot of people yet. :wink:

I would probably never need a dog to bite but I sure don't want one to backdown.

I am very interested in what the definition of a PPD? I might be asking for the wrong thing.
 

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My take on this is that 99% of the people that want/think they need a PPD...don't.

Many years ago, I trained somewhere between 175 and 200 dogs for PP. I could tell you some sad stories about great dogs that really did bite people THEY WERE SUPPOSED to bite...and the whole thing backfired on their owners severely; great dogs that bit people they were not supposed to bite; and great dogs that were not kept up, and were either kenneled for life, sent away to farms, given away to people who did not care for them properly, etc. Very few PPdogs actually served a purpose beyond alerting/prevention/deterrent.

The lifestyle changes, level of awareness, expense, time requirements, training direction, decoy(s), are hard to assimilate for people who do not know what they're getting into. And even if a person has all of the above handled, the person HONESTLY needs talent to manage a powerful dog. If they don't have this talent, they quickly find themselves over their head.

So the first necessary distinction is between people that want a "PPD" and those who want a pet.

If it's the first, this BEGS the question, "What is a PPD?"

I think the answer is, "a deterrent; a preventive measure; an early warning system"...rarely is it an offensive/defensive weapon.

And then the waters cloud up some...because for a dog to be an effective deterrent, it needs some presence, some guts; for it to be a preventive measure it needs to be somewhat visible; and for it to be an early warning system, it must be territorial/sharp.

...so we go to the working dog group, the molossers, the shepherds, the bulldogs. And herein lies the problem...

Most people are soft, and thus soften up the breeds, so they can "handle" their dogs. And what were originally good pools from which to draw good dogs, dry up...and people wanting PPD's go to the sport people or the show people, who are actually breeding for a different set of goals: DRIVE, DRIVE, DRIVE...or BEAUTY (!!??). It's a Catch-22 AND a vicious circle.

So in conclusion, I don't see a serious need for PPD's for those who don't have the experience that is required, because having a real PPD for these people is more problems than it's worth.

If you REALLY need security, make sure you live in a secure neighborhood, have a decent fence, illuminate your perimeter well, don't open the door to strangers, teach your family what they need to know, get a good alarm system (and USE IT!), get a dog that will alert reliably, but that is easy to get along with, get some good locks on your doors (and USE THEM!), be aware of your surroundings at all times, advise your family of where you are and where you're going, and have them do the same with you, get a neighborhood watch going, be in contact and on good terms with your local law enforcement, layer the physical security in your house, have something to fight back with if needed, get trained in its use, and keep yourself profficient, have a safe room in your house, have a plan in case something happens, practice it every so often, etc.

A dog is just a tiny, tiny layer...and can even be a problem...in the wrong hands.
 

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Everybody thinks differently but for me a PPD is a dog that will bite/fight a person or people when i need him to. Does everyone that owns a gun NEED it, probably not, but it's sure nice to have if you do, same with a PPD, and by far the most fun of all the layers :) :) :) ,
AL
 

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Al Curbow said:
Everybody thinks differently but for me a PPD is a dog that will bite/fight a person or people when i need him to. Does everyone that owns a gun NEED it, probably not, but it's sure nice to have if you do, same with a PPD, and by far the most fun of all the layers :) :) :) ,
AL
QUOTE: by far the most fun of all the layers END

Now there's a good point! (Well, for us dog folks, anyway!) :lol:
 

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Being inexperienced with working dogs, I can say this: My wife would use a dog before she could shoot someone. I have had dogs all my life (not working dogs) and if only experience people could have them, no one would own them. We all have to start somewhere. We have to be trained as well as our dogs. :) Al, I agree 110%.

Everybody thinks differently but for me a PPD is a dog that will bite/fight a person or people when i need him to. Does everyone that owns a gun NEED it, probably not, but it's sure nice to have if you do, same with a PPD, and by far the most fun of all the layers ,
AL
 
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Andres Martin said:
And then the waters cloud up some...because for a dog to be an effective deterrent, it needs some presence, some guts; for it to be a preventive measure it needs to be somewhat visible; and for it to be an early warning system, it must be territorial/sharp.

...so we go to the working dog group, the molossers, the shepherds, the bulldogs. And herein lies the problem...

Most people are soft, and thus soften up the breeds, so they can "handle" their dogs. And what were originally good pools from which to draw good dogs, dry up...and people wanting PPD's go to the sport people or the show people, who are actually breeding for a different set of goals: DRIVE, DRIVE, DRIVE...or BEAUTY (!!??). It's a Catch-22 AND a vicious circle.

So in conclusion, I don't see a serious need for PPD's for those who don't have the experience that is required, because having a real PPD for these people is more problems than it's worth.

If you REALLY need security, make sure you live in a secure neighborhood, have a decent fence, illuminate your perimeter well, don't open the door to strangers, teach your family what they need to know, get a good alarm system (and USE IT!), get a dog that will alert reliably, but that is easy to get along with, get some good locks on your doors (and USE THEM!), be aware of your surroundings at all times, advise your family of where you are and where you're going, and have them do the same with you, get a neighborhood watch going, be in contact and on good terms with your local law enforcement, layer the physical security in your house, have something to fight back with if needed, get trained in its use, and keep yourself profficient, have a safe room in your house, have a plan in case something happens, practice it every so often, etc.

A dog is just a tiny, tiny layer...and can even be a problem...in the wrong hands.

Couldn't be said any better. I believe PPDs are even of a higher caliber than PSDs for good reasons. In our case, these dogs protect mostly unarmed civilians with no other weapon but the dog. Having a high-aggression defense dog takes authority and skill to handle and control, and unless one has a great need or desire for dogs of this kind, there may not be enough motivation to propel one to work such dogs. Having a canine soldier obedient to your slightest nod, yet street-safe, crowd-safe and child-safe entail good discipline, hard work and toughness on the part of the owner handler, who should realize sporting method is not the way to go.

A dog in the wrong hands can even be a problem indeed. To the right hands, an ultimate weapon...

Just my opinion...
 

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I think it's fair to say that no two ppd's can have equal requirements expected of them. For the most part each dog's working enviorment will be specific to his owners needs.
In my case, I own a small bussiness (liquor store) in a decent area a couple of blocks away from the projects. I stay late at night, some times till midnight.
I deal with the best and the worst that the world has to offer, they all come in the store. My dog's job is to look at everybody as a threat. He's on the sharp side, and I like it that way.
In a 12-14 hour workday he is never more than two feet away from me. Where ever I go he goes, he is not allowed to roam the store without me. If I need to step out from behind the counter to help someone he is on a lead next to me all the time, no exceptions. He is perfectly comfortable with crowds and the public. All who enter are told they are not allowed to touch the dog. Under no circumstances will he ever have any physical contact with children. He can be petted on the head, if I choose to allow it.
90% of his job is to be seen, and deter any criminal intent before it happens.
When locking up at night, he is in a down position facing traffic, while i'm pulling down the gate. He will not break the down position until released.
Once we are in the car, he becomes my big mushy pet.
I do obedience training before work, during work, and after work, everyday. Protection work is usually 2-3 a month. He's not perfect, but he's good at his job.
Anyway, that's my situation, I really would like to hear from others with ppd's as well.
S.K.
 

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A strong dog needs a strong handler who is dedicated to training and has enough responsibility to make sure nothing happens that isnt supposed to.

I agree completely with Andres and Al.

I meet people all the time who think they want a real working dog.Believe me,thats not what they want and certainly not what they need.Most of them just want a good pet that barks at strangers.

Stability must be a big part of protection training and not just biting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I actually like all the answers to the question I posted.
My biggest concern with a person wanting a PPD is a lack of leadership by that person, or a lack of understanding of a dogs mentality.
In that regard, Greg said it best.
"A strong dog needs a strong handler who is dedicated to training and has enough responsibility to make sure nothing happpens that isn't supposed to".
 
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Andres Martin said:
.

Most people are soft, and thus soften up the breeds, so they can "handle" their dogs. And what were originally good pools from which to draw good dogs, dry up...and people wanting PPD's go to the sport people or the show people, who are actually breeding for a different set of goals: DRIVE, DRIVE, DRIVE...or BEAUTY (!!??). It's a Catch-22 AND a vicious circle.

The above statement, for me, is another BEST....
 

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IMHO a PPD is in reality a deterent. If a bad person is willing to cause bodily harm to you using a weapon they certainly won't hesitate to cause bodily harm to your dog. At least with a dog you know they're coming, as has been stated they are simply a layer of protection.

PSDs have a variety of jobs and so do PPDs.....depends on what the handlers needs are.....I am an artist, paint outside either alone or with one other friend. Painting requires intense focus so it is difficult to stay aware of what is going on around me. I don't like for strange people to stop and watch me paint as they usually stand behind me, for obvious reasons this isn't safe, I know this from experience. When my dog is with me they can't get but so close. I also live on a farm 3 mi out with no visible neighbors.....there have been many break-ins and several middle-aged women murdered within a 40 mi. radius of me within the last 3-4 years. Having a sharp, high-defense dog is great! I don't have kids living at home and don't have a lot of people in and out of my house so she can be as bad as she wants to be...... I know when someone turns down my driveway. I feel much safer with my dog. She serves her purpose well.

She also travels with me, I take her to town and we walk down the street. She is social to a degree away from home and probably would be more so if I worked at it.....I just don't have a need for a social butterfly. She has taught me much and I have had help from excellent trainers with her. I agree these types of dogs are not for everyone but, can be invaluable partners when paired with the right person.

Regards,
Debbie
 

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Quote:Most people are soft, and thus soften up the breeds, so they can "handle" their dogs. And what were originally good pools from which to draw good dogs, dry up...and people wanting PPD's go to the sport people or the show people, who are actually breeding for a different set of goals: DRIVE, DRIVE, DRIVE...or BEAUTY (!!??). It's a Catch-22 AND a vicious circle.

Wow. Sounds familiar, but so good I had to say so.



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