Working Dog Forums banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The friends I have been working with both Police and Civilian have been throwing around the idea of a Mondio club. So in the Vacant Hospital we train at I'm racking my head trying to come up with unique scenarios. Anyone with Mondio experience who could of help, please advize. I would to see the entire trial inside this hospital or something similar, as it provides very odd stresses on the teams. We were doing defense of handler in stairwells.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c02gIHWUau4

The above one is a Malinois Boss, that we use as a Stud, he is retired from trials or from any rigid routines. So he outs slow, and we forgive him this, because we love him dearly and allow him some fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho2YeKq6DRQ

This one is Aldo a Police Dog handled by Officer Mike Roy, who's foundation is leg biting, so naturally I don't let him have leg bites if I can help it, not alot of room for safe escapes here.

Any comments on Mondio would be appreciated and welcomed. No making fun of decoy work, I'm no French or Mexican decoy:)

Bryan
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,727 Posts
As far as starting a club, all the paperwork is on the MR site, and of course I would like to see another club. I think it is 50 bucks and you are there.

How cool would it be to have a trial in an old hospital? REAL cool.



 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,588 Posts
I'm curious too. It looks like an e-collar, but I don't have a clue why it would be there as opposed to the neck.


Andy.
i'm sure it's an e-collar. i used to do that with my dog when i used an innotek collar. the innotek didn't have enough juice to get his attention when it was on his neck. since i bought a dogtra, it works just fine on his neck. here's some pics with the old innotek:





 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,068 Posts
I'm curious too. It looks like an e-collar, but I don't have a clue why it would be there as opposed to the neck.
Its an e-collar. I'm sure Bryan can explain why Boss wears it there.

And, according to the US Mondioring Association's website, the trial field must consist of a fenced field (max 5000 sq. meters, min. 60mX40m) and the ground of the field cannot be hard (neither paved nor gravel). See "Competition Field":
http://www.usmondioring.org/usmramondioringrules.html#pgtop

If I'm reading the regulations correctly, that would kinda make it difficult to use our hospital site, right? Sure would be fun though!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,727 Posts
We ignore a lot of the other rules, so why not?? : )

In all seriousness, with rubber mats for the jumps, even if it was just a mock trial it would be really fun. We could dress people up as doctors and patients.

Face attack over a gurney? Too fun!



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
To see a video of Boss doesn't do much to really understand what kind of dog he is. I have worked Police Dogs, KNPV, NVBK ect... He's not the hardest biting dog I have ever worked. But, he is a pure warrior and the fight is all he is about. There is barely enough you can do as a handler to earn his respect, it's a constant battle to this day at eight years old. He was originally trained by some of the Mexico's best decoys and trainers too. He honestly should have been a SWAT dog, he did manage to get a Brevet. Sport is just too unfair to him, his handler didn't want to have to kill him to get points. The collar on his belly and neck is just a minor irritant to him at best.

We are freezing SEMEN of this dog for sure.

Bryan
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,588 Posts
i always laugh at the assumption that a PSD can somehow have shitty control. i laugh even harder when i hear someone mention that such a dog can be a "SWAT dog", like that requires even less control than a PSD. the fact is that a SWAT dog must have MORE control than a patrol dog. at least over here (USA), the ideal SWAT dog must have a ton of control. SWAT searches with dogs are slow, methodical searches. off leash seek and destroy missions are not what SWAT dogs do. a SWAT dog must work in very close proximity to strange SWAT team members wearing gear that probably looks very similar to a decoy in a bite suit. a dog who focuses and targets these members is obviously useless. these dogs are asked to clear a corner 20 feet from the team and must drop to a down immediately upon command (which may be a silent command of some type. perhaps the tone on an e-collar, or a silent whistle). the dog might have to wait by himself in this down for several minutes and must do so SILENTLY. a yipping, yapping, snarling, whining dog is useless in this environment...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
21,867 Posts
We ignore a lot of the other rules, so why not?? : )

In all seriousness, with rubber mats for the jumps, even if it was just a mock trial it would be really fun. We could dress people up as doctors and patients.

Face attack over a gurney? Too fun!
And nurses. Gotta have nurses! :-D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ok Tim, I have decoyed and trained many many Police Dogs over the years. Most if not all, don't have the level of finese control the the top end sport dogs do. My point with Boss is this, this dog is everything needed to be a SWAT. He has no sharpness at all, which leads to him being completely silent. No need to bark when nothing threatens you. Now, as I mentioned earlier but you probably didn't read because you felt insecure about another person treading on your turf, this dog could have control, and still have more control than most of the Police Dogs I train with. BUT HE IS EIGHT AND NO ONE WANTS TO KICK HIS ASS FOR NO REASON.

So if you like, I will submit and allow you all the Police Dog talk from here on in, as obviously a Police Dog is something absolutely special to the dog world and only a cop can understand that dog. Now, I sit and laugh when COPS think that they have an exclusive market on dog behavior. It's a joke and why so many poorly trainers PSDs and Trainers are out there. Honestly, leave your macho COP stuff in the Police Car. You don't have your badge and gun here.

This Dog Boss was simply born to do this stuff, not Sport work where he is asked to work outside his character. I have raised over a dozen Police Dogs from puppy to finish dog AND DONATED EACH ONE. I know what is required Tim, but I'm glad I gave you a laugh. Perhaps next time you can show a little class and introduce you properly, my name is Bryan and stop perpetuating the silly COP and Civilian divide. It only keeps you down.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,588 Posts
I'm interested in reading your ideas about why this would be the case.
i'll tell you why. it's pretty simple. training, or lack of. some of the hardest, toughest police dogs i have seen have been met lof PH1's. high scoring sport dogs. they come over here, are with their handler for 2 months and it's like the dog never had to let go of a bite in his life. why is this? did this dog suddenly develop into a man eating shark incapable of training? no. it's the same dog still capable of attaining high scores in sport. the difference is that the dog's dutch sport handler was probably on that dog's ass 7 days a week. he comes over here, the handler works the dog 16 hours a month, and the control falls off.

as far as brian's rant, it provided me more laughs than the other post. where to begin with that...

i think i've sufficiently addressed the sport/point vs. PSD control issue.

as for you dog boss, i never said he wouldn't be a good SWAT dog. as a matter of fact, i never mentioned your dog. he may very well have been a good one. i don't know. you need not take my post as an insult to your dog.

insecure about someone treading on my turf? lol. good one. a civilian could very well have made the same comment i did and it wouldn't be any less valid (i'm sure jeff would agree with me here. lol). in fact, it may be an even more valid point for a civilian to make. they are the ones we work for. should they expect less of their police dogs than a sport handler would expect of theirs? additionally, your belief that a PSD can and should be dirty is a notion that is common amongst PSD handlers, so you not being one has nothing to do with it.

there is no cop civilian divide being perpetuated on my end. you seem to want to though.

c'mon. i didn't mean to hurt your feelings. can you ever forgive me?

and for introductions...i didn't think i needed to since i have been a member on this forum since it's inception.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,727 Posts
I am positive that this row between the two of you never woud have happened if it was face to face. This form of communication is pathetic, and leaves a great deal to be desired.

I have argued point after point in this form of communication, and honestly, Tim is one of the quite frankly many people on THIS forum that can get past the fact that we can't type for dhit, and that most rarely get exactly what is meant.

So, how about you jump ship from the other forums that people start pooping on each other so quick and give us a minute/we give you a minute to see what or why we are saying what we are saying.

God knows I stir the pot, but Tim is one of the few people that has shown me over and over that he has a lot more of this dog stuff figured out than an awefull lot of posters.

Too bad he is a cop. : )



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
[your belief that a PSD can and should be dirty is a notion that is common amongst PSD handlers, so you not being one has nothing to do with it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is just a flat ignorant statement and no where did I elude to him being dirty as a desirable trait for Police Work. He's being DIRTY as I will explain for you TIM AGAIN is the fact that he is now eight years old, retired, and is just out to have fun and train decoys. No need to get in his ass to clean him up.

This divide is here, it's real, and it is your loss. Why you feel threatened is your issue not mine. I don't have all day to post responses to one person, and certainly couldn't match the nearly 800 you have posted. I'm busy training and donating my time to helping your profession advance, and I sometimes ask myself why?

I often ask myself if trainers in Holland or Belgium after they compete and the officers line up to purchase the dogs they handled and trained, I wonder if they too get disrespected, with now, the "Real training" starts attitude?

Bryan

Ok, Tim I'm done Ranting, it's your turn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
[
God knows I stir the pot, but Tim is one of the few people that has shown me over and over that he has a lot more of this dog stuff figured out than an awefull lot of posters.

Too bad he is a cop. : )[/QUOTE]


Well, Jeff and Tim, I show respect to all first. I was raised right. I don't hide anything, I have opened myself to all the critism you can throw at me, I don't mind at all. I will post my video's, with no fear, I don't hide behind my computer, I train dogs simple. Tim is always welcomed to attend or participate in training with me. Though, Tim know this for sure, I won't run down the field presenting my arm out to the side for your DS to bite, he will have to earn his bite and work for it, NICE PHOTOS THOUGH:)

Bryan

I extend a hand in friendship to Tim and will cordially accept his back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,973 Posts
I am positive that this row between the two of you never woud have happened if it was face to face. This form of communication is pathetic, and leaves a great deal to be desired.

I have argued point after point in this form of communication, and honestly, Tim is one of the quite frankly many people on THIS forum that can get past the fact that we can't type for dhit, and that most rarely get exactly what is meant.

So, how about you jump ship from the other forums that people start pooping on each other so quick and give us a minute/we give you a minute to see what or why we are saying what we are saying.
Jesus. Somebody steal your login? You under court order to provide a post like this every 250 posts? :lol:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,196 Posts
I only say this for two reasons, 1. because you said he was worked by a police officer 2. my dislike of the the bark and hold.

I really dislike seeing the dog release when the decoy stops moving. Was someone giving the command to release or is that the "sport" part of the dog. Obviously I'm opposed to the bark and hold in police work.

DFrost
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I only say this for two reasons, 1. because you said he was worked by a police officer 2. my dislike of the the bark and hold.

I really dislike seeing the dog release when the decoy stops moving. Was someone giving the command to release or is that the "sport" part of the dog. Obviously I'm opposed to the bark and hold in police work.

DFrost

That is an absolutely valid point David, and with Music in the video you can't hear the outs, also the handlers are at quite a distance. You will see me single the handler, then the out command is verbalized. What you do see is the control and thought in the dog to make a decision, is this an escape or just involuntary movement. Both these dogs and any dog I train will out and guard only when commanded to out. They will also remain fighting with a non-combative decoy. Passive attacks too are a must. I give no help with prey movement at times during the bite. The dog is simply trained to keep driving in, whach Boss again for training in that regard. No preference for a body part, he doesn't try to pull on the grip, he has been taught to drive through the body and keep driving. There is NO excessive barking, snarling, growling, only fight drive TIM. I have decoyed SWAT training, this dog has absolutely NO handler dependecy issues, he will work and do what he must to get a fight, one bite, no type writer nervy. Just dominant show of force, plain and simple. We will be training his pups and donating them to Communities in Need, it is our hope they are half of what he is.

Excellent point David, I would hate to see a dog get killed because he outed on his own, especially one I bred, lived with for a year and trained with my family.

Bryan Colletti

Tim be advised my mom know's that you have been picking on me. She is asking you post your decoy work and training videos:))
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top