I reward my pup with a tug when he does a behavior correctly. Being a young pup, I play with him for a minute or two before moving on to another behavior. What I like to tell people (and something that was told to me by a trainer long,long ago) is you have 4 seconds from the time the dog does the behavior correctly to reward him before he thinks he's just getting a treat/praise/tug for the hell of it. With EDDs, NDDs, and some dual-purpose PSDs, a ball/tug is given IMMEDIATELY when a correct signal (bark, sit, down, touch, etc.) is given by the dog to indicate the target scent (narcotics, etc).
Tug rewards
I yanked this comment of Bob's out of another thread on food rewards as it related to my question...
How do you all reward with tug? I mean, specifically, how do you do it, how quickly do you do it, how long do you play tug, etc.?
I need to switch to something else as my dog does not get revved up by food if there are other distractions around, and my dog gets waaayyy to revved up by the ball to concentrate. But...one of the advantages of food reward is that it's fast. Fast to produce, fast to consume. A tug is harder to produce (yank out of a pocket) and harder to consume (because setting up the dog for a tug and letting them tug and outing them takes time). So can you all walk me through the steps you'd take to do a tug reward? I'll take film I can break down if necessary.
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That 4 seconds max is a great point.Sarah Hall said:
That's my own big reason for beginning with markers........there isn't much rewarding I can do in under 4 seconds.
But I can definitely mark in maybe 2 seconds, *then* fish around for the reward.Very true, that's why I like using clicker training for pet dogs. Most pet dog owners cannot get a treat out and get it to their dog's mouth in those 4 precious seconds. I've actually had a great dane I trained that would drool anytime she heard any sound CLOSE to a clicker.
That is hilarious! :lol:Sarah Hall said:Very true, that's why I like using clicker training for pet dogs. Most pet dog owners cannot get a treat out and get it to their dog's mouth in those 4 precious seconds. I've actually had a great dane I trained that would drool anytime she heard any sound CLOSE to a clicker.
I haven't used clickers, but I did hear their use advocated recently (when I was reviewing ob training videos) by a well-known trainer who normally hasn't much use for them (because they are not always there, in your hand, mainly) for "mainly men who can't get their voices to sound happy/praising" for markers.
Cracked me up, because I have definitely run into a couple of those people. "Yes" or "good" sounds like a drill sergeant........ :lol:
I can't/won't use a clicker for the same reasons I can't/won't use an ecollar, believe it or not...1., I lose everything all the time, and 2. my little kids are disruptive badgers and they'd get that clicker from whereever I put it and start hammering on the thing all day long. They cannot steal my voice (yet) although I guess I could yell myself hoarse at them sometime in the future.Sarah Hall said:Very true, that's why I like using clicker training for pet dogs. Most pet dog owners cannot get a treat out and get it to their dog's mouth in those 4 precious seconds. I've actually had a great dane I trained that would drool anytime she heard any sound CLOSE to a clicker.
So...you all think 4 seconds is appropriate? Why not 1.5? why not 6? I'm serious, not pushing back on this. Getting a tug out of my pocket (or a ball) is hard to do quickly and in a way that doesn't agitate up the dog.
I like the vest shown in this photo from Euro-Joe with the ball drop. The ball drop can be placed on front or back of the vest... intended so that if the dog comes into heel position and sits too far forward you can put the drop on the back n the dog corrects himself to sit further back. The dog looks up because he knows thats where the ball comes from. There is no body language to show the dog they are getting the ball because the release is a cable on the opposite side of the vest. I don't see a problem with the dog seeing the reward, look at Bernard Flinks, he has trained some excellent dogs and keeps the tug up by his chest where you would place the ball drop to teach the dog to focus up there.
Woody, Iput the tig in my left arm pit. When he is correct I simply raise my left arm and the yug falls out. Then I give him a lot of praise and a bunch of at-a-boys. We tug and play and when he releases it I put him right back in fuss or what ever command I want him to do. When he's done it the reward comes right back. The fuss command is when I have it under my arm, all other commands I have it in my hand. IF he don't do what I ask I simply say no and walk away for a second and put him back in drive and try again, and again, and again Be consistant
Be consistant
I didn't read my post before I sent it. I guess by now you could tell that. Tig is actually Tug, etc.............
Tig is actually Tug, etc.............Great thoughts, Jerry. Do you wait for eye contact? And how long you play after you've dropped it?Jerry Lyda said:Woody, Iput the tig in my left arm pit. When he is correct I simply raise my left arm and the yug falls out. Then I give him a lot of praise and a bunch of at-a-boys. We tug and play and when he releases it I put him right back in fuss or what ever command I want him to do. When he's done it the reward comes right back. The fuss command is when I have it under my arm, all other commands I have it in my hand. IF he don't do what I ask I simply say no and walk away for a second and put him back in drive and try again, and again, and again
That was what I thought you meant.Woody Taylor said:
I meant "more opinions" ! Sorry..........
I like the thread. 8)
Call me jackass, but 4 seconds is way too long. 2 seconds is about it. the marker needs to be there as quick as possible, but the food doesn't have to be lightning fast.
Food drive is a calmer drive, and that is why many of us start with it. Prey drive causes tension, and you can get slow sits and downs because of the anticipation of the reward.
As far as the children, well if the clicker is in your training bag in your closet/trunk whatever, this is a good time to practice compulsion if they get to it. (read spanking ) Not an excuse if I was your trainer, so get with it!!! LOL
I don't like artificial methods of getting the dog to "appear" to be looking at me. Maybe I am a purist.
With the marker training, it is a good thing to gradually begin to space out the time between marker and reward when using the food. I found this to help on my clumsy days getting the dang tug out from behind me.
Ivans video's are a very good investment for learning this stuff. Much better than us hacks on the internet. :twisted: :twisted:
Food drive is a calmer drive, and that is why many of us start with it. Prey drive causes tension, and you can get slow sits and downs because of the anticipation of the reward.
As far as the children, well if the clicker is in your training bag in your closet/trunk whatever, this is a good time to practice compulsion if they get to it. (read spanking
) Not an excuse if I was your trainer, so get with it!!! LOLI don't like artificial methods of getting the dog to "appear" to be looking at me. Maybe I am a purist.
With the marker training, it is a good thing to gradually begin to space out the time between marker and reward when using the food. I found this to help on my clumsy days getting the dang tug out from behind me.
Ivans video's are a very good investment for learning this stuff. Much better than us hacks on the internet. :twisted: :twisted:
Ah Jeff, we now have something to cut and paste in your threads to go along with "you're absolutely right, Jeff" or whatever :lol: Jackass. :lol:Jeff Oehlsen said:Call me jackass,...
Food drive is a calmer drive, and that is why many of us start with it. Prey drive causes tension, and you can get slow sits and downs because of the anticipation of the reward.
As far as the children, well if the clicker is in your training bag in your closet/trunk whatever, this is a good time to practice compulsion if they get to it. (read spanking
I don't like artificial methods of getting the dog to "appear" to be looking at me. Maybe I am a purist.
With the marker training, it is a good thing to gradually begin to space out the time between marker and reward when using the food. I found this to help on my clumsy days getting the dang tug out from behind me.
Ivans video's are a very good investment for learning this stuff. Much better than us hacks on the internet. :twisted: :twisted:
I will be serious (but not explicit because you will cut and paste it and use it against me) when I say thanks for this post. I did not know food drive was considered to be calmer, I just thought my dog didn't really have it and I had pretty much trained it out of her this winter when I didn't regularly carry a treat bag.
Can't beat up the kids yet, they are too young, but they are gadget freaks and we made the classic mistake of letting them goof with everything gadget-y in the house. Two independent toddlers + clickers makes for one confused dog.
How do you all "stage" the tug? Jerry's dropping it from his armpit, that seems way easier than my way (trying to dig it out of whatever pocket, linking up both handles, and getting it out to offer to the dog in less than 1.5 seconds without the dog jumping on me first, which I can honestly say is not wokring all that well
). I want to reward a tug FAST and Jerry's way seems pretty darn quick and a lot easier on the fingers.
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