Training goals for a 9 Month Female GSD

11371 Views 43 Replies 11 Participants Last post by Jeff Oehlsen, Sep 17, 2006

Martin Espericueta

Discussion Starter · Sep 3, 2006

Training goals for a 9 Month Female GSD

Hello All,

Just a quick History: I have a 9 month old female GSD, which I've had
since she was 9 weeks old. When Sable was 5 months, I took her to get
evaluated at a SchH club by Gregg Tawney.

She was concidered "ok" by him, not going to win any big SchH
competitions, but just had "ok" prey drive. Again, she was just 5 months at
the time, and Gregg told me to really work w/her on building drive (and focus).

Her temperment is fine. She's beginning to bark at noises outside at night.
I like this, as I would really like her as more of a deterent than PPD. I just
don't think she has the genes. But as a sports dog, I want to do SchH with
her.

She's a "soft" dog, althought I don't correct her much, just only for bad manners.

She recently has begun to pee when I walk up to her, after a bit of time
away from her. I think my sons may have been picking on her. I've never
caught them, but have a feeling. That has stopped (as far as I can tell,
after telling them, "LEAVE MY DOG ALONE!!!"), but now she kind of cowers
- just sometimes, not all the time - when I aproach her.

So, now that I've bored you all w/her history

I'm trying to build up her
confidence (again

) and her OB.

What should I be concentrating on right now? Her sitz/platz
are great, but her heir has diminished, I feel, due to the issue
above (acting scared). She's 100% with her heir when I'm all alone
w/her, and 75% w/distractions. Sometimes, she'll cower and go the other
way

I play tug w/her every day, and (get this...) have made a bite sleeve from
my wife's old jean overalls. I've wrapped it on my arm, and let her tug at
it like the tug she has.

So, what else should I do? and should I continue the jean-tug? I have no
extra $$$ for club membership anywhere (couldn't you tell by my
jean-tug?) and don't know anyone "close" to me who I can train with.

Thanks!

See less See more

21 - 40 of 44 Posts

susan tuck

· #21 · Sep 6, 2006

And Greg, lest you forget, most of us in the "real world" have no need for a "real" protection dog. Frankly, "happy flashy" dogs look good, & get the points. Also, I have been lucky enough to have had sch dog that did have to get after a real bad guy for me once, & he sure did the job. Of course, he was a Tiekerhook dog!!! Honestly, you guys!

Debbie High

· #22 · Sep 6, 2006

Greg Long said:
As for flashy and happy :roll: :roll: you gotta do what you gotta do for points I guess. :x

I'm not always into flashy and happy either, depends on the dog. In the first post Martin said he wanted to do Sch with his bitch, so flashy and happy would certainly be advantageous for him.

Debbie

Woody Taylor

· #23 · Sep 6, 2006

Greg Long said:
Tell the kids to leave the dog alone for awhile.

How about beat the living hell out of the kids for messing with the dog? My kids are 3 and 1.5 and this is one area that there is no compromise for either pet or kid. No teasing, no screwing around, no nothing, respect the dog/cat/fish/kid. The kids are superior to the dog and the dog knows this but the kids do not.

Seriously, if my kids were older and EVER teased any animal, I would lay into them hard. Right now it's verbal and timeouts...but once they are older that will be rule #1 of Fight Club at the Taylor household. You mess with another part of the pack, you will not be able to sit down for two weeks. Teasing pisses me off.

Martin, I don't know if you lean towards the soy burgers and rainbows part of the parental spectrum...I tend to on 95% of stuff...but that's one behavior I will never tolerate. You cannot tolerate that behavior around a dog, and humans should never tolerate it of other humans, regardless. If they are too old for spankings publically humilate them in front of their school. But don't put up with that garbage in your home, around your dog, or any other animal.

See less See more

Jose Alberto Reanto

· #24 · Sep 6, 2006

susan tuck said:
And Greg, lest you forget, most of us in the "real world" have no need for a "real" protection dog. Frankly, "happy flashy" dogs look good, & get the points. Also, I have been lucky enough to have had sch dog that did have to get after a real bad guy for me once, & he sure did the job. Of course, he was a Tiekerhook dog!!! Honestly, you guys!

Pardon me please, but I don't think suggestions about asking kids to lay off the dog nor boosting the dog's confidence thru walks have anything to do with either sports or real. Something has got to be done to "bring the dog back" first so its owner/handler can utilize it for any future discipline.

I believe any dog well-loved by its handler will put up resistance if it finds its owner at risk. Even my showline dog I owned at first tore the pants off a mean bill collector. Though it was enough to scare and drive the man away, I also knew it was the most that dog could do. I had a call from an inquirer who told me of his highly-titled dog watch him got mauled by 3 guys. It was the second I heard of such case. One tabloid I read tells of a lady with her dog confronted also by 3 drunken men. The dog put up a fight but was down in a minute and the 3 proceeded to rape the lady.

Most may not really need a personal protection dog at all. I even doubt if they can handle or develop a real one. Only a serious need can one really decide and be motivated enough to own and develop one.

Just my opinion...

Best regards...

See less See more

Becky Shilling

· #25 · Sep 6, 2006

I was surprised (and pleased) with my old Dobe Odin on one occasion. He was a real people-dog loved everybody and I never thought he would show any aggresion no matter what. Being a 90 pound red muscle with eyes made most people give him a wide berth anyway. One evening I had taken him to the store with me in the passenger seat of our van. When I pulled in the drive at home, my husband was doing some work in the yard and came around a shrub and headed for my door down the drivers' side of the van. I guess Odin just saw movement headed for me (it was dusk/nearly dark) in the rear view mirror. Suddenly he roared like a lion and leaped across me out my window, hitting my husband like a freight train and knocking him down. Luckily he realized it was Steve before any more damage was done. Then he was all wiggly butt and apologetic grins.

Made me realize he would indeed protect me if it came to it.

See less See more

Martin Espericueta

Discussion Starter · #26 · Sep 6, 2006

Greg Long said:

Ok ,Ill address the real issue!

The cowering and peeing I dont like.Tell the kids to leave the dog alone for awhile.Then take the dog everywhere with you.You may already do this.

Yes, she goes EVERYWHERE w/me - this she loves! And as far as the kids
and her go, they are under strict orders to not give ANY commands to her,
only open the door to let her out to pee when I'm not home. Otherwise, she's
with my wife.

Greg Long said some more:

Another thing you can do is take her out somewhere she can run loose in a big area without any other dogs or people for that matter.I get dogs in that lack confidence sometimes and this seems to help as much as anything.Let her be a dog and do what she wants for awhile.

I'll do this starting tomorrow (man, I LOVE this forum - such great advice!!!)

Greg Long said again:

When you do work her, dont allow anyone else to give her commands. (Martin inserts: Yes, this is being done) All the while,you need to be very in tune with her every action and recognize when she is coming under stress.When you see this you tell her "its OK".

I do try to be tuned in to her (I owe that much to her), but I have a question
on the "its OK" part. Isn't comforting your dog when they're scared or unsure
sort of telling them that their "fear behavior" is OK? I've read that during
"fear behavior" from your dog, you ignore that, and just redirect them.
I hope y'all know what I'm trying to say

Greg Long was saying:

Also,you're attitude needs to be very confident and relaxed.

I am the confident and relaxed pack leader in my home - a true Cesar
Milan disciple

- fair but firm. I just wish I was there for her during
the time my kids where... AHHHAAAHHH!!!

Woody Taylor said of Greg Long's quote:

Tell the kids to leave the dog alone for awhile.

How about beat the living hell out of the kids for messing with the dog?...
Martin, I don't know if you lean towards the soy burgers and rainbows part of the parental spectrum...I tend to on 95% of stuff...but that's one behavior I will never tolerate.

Both my wife and I are firm believers in spanking our kids. We do so out
of love, never in anger - but our kids know that the consequence for
disobedience/bad behavior is spanking/priveledges taken.

Unfortunately, with all the kids denying the whole thing... Well, let's just
say that they know (all three sons) that IF I EVER CATCH THEM/HEAR
THAT THEY ABUSED OUR DOGS AGAIN... Yes, sitting down will not be an
option for a couple of weeks

Keep the advice coming guys and gals! I'm just soaking it all up!

Once the bond between Sable and I is back where is should be (why
would she be fearful w/me anyway?), and I can begin (light???) OB
again, what would you sport dog trainers be consentrating on w/a 9 month
old soft bitch w/medium prey drive?

See less See more

Greg Long

· #27 · Sep 6, 2006

I never said anything about real protection dogs.I am referring to something that you have a real need for the dog to do.It could be anything but sport for points isnt one of them.

I have dogs that act all happy and flashy but its not something I try to get out of my dogs.I dont care one way or the other.

Martin,

Its really hard to explain the "its ok" without demonstration.Its more of an acknowledgment to the dog that you are also aware of the situation than it is a comforting gesture.Its all in the way you use your vocal tones and your attitude.
If you were to coddle her and get down on your knees and say"its ok ,poor baby,everything will be alright" then I dont think that is a good thing and yes you could be encouraging the behavior.However if your vocals are very directive and say "ITS OK,I SEE IT" then you are telling the dog that you also see what she sees and it actually sharpens the indication but your attitude and vocals are what calms the dog and builds trust and confidence.Your attention should not be on her but on whatever she is worried about or on the task at hand.
If she is worried about you, then just pick up the lead and go do something.Dont focus on what she is doing but on a task like a small obstacle or something.She will then follow and start to take direction IF you have the DESIRE to communicate with her.
I believe obstacle work is one of the greatest tools for building a working relationship with your dog.At first though you need to go over the obstacles yourself and have the dog follow you on leash.This forces you to work WITH the dog to complete the task of getting both yourself and your dog over the obstacle.You can then incorporate obedience into the obstacle work.

I could go on and on but that is a good place to begin.

See less See more

Sarah Hall

· #28 · Sep 6, 2006

Maybe it's a little late for this (and I don't know if anyone said this yet), but if the kids keep picking on the dog, why not just beat up on them for a while? Make them see why she doesn't act happy!:twisted: :lol:

Martin Espericueta

Discussion Starter · #29 · Sep 8, 2006

Greg Long said:

Martin,

Its really hard to explain the "its ok" without demonstration.Its more of an acknowledgment to the dog that you are also aware of the situation than it is a comforting gesture.Its all in the way you use your vocal tones and your attitude.
If you were to coddle her and get down on your knees and say"its ok ,poor baby,everything will be alright" then I dont think that is a good thing and yes you could be encouraging the behavior.However if your vocals are very directive and say "ITS OK,I SEE IT" then you are telling the dog that you also see what she sees and it actually sharpens the indication but your attitude and vocals are what calms the dog and builds trust and confidence.Your attention should not be on her but on whatever she is worried about or on the task at hand.
If she is worried about you, then just pick up the lead and go do something.Dont focus on what she is doing but on a task like a small obstacle or something.She will then follow and start to take direction IF you have the DESIRE to communicate with her.
I believe obstacle work is one of the greatest tools for building a working relationship with your dog.At first though you need to go over the obstacles yourself and have the dog follow you on leash.This forces you to work WITH the dog to complete the task of getting both yourself and your dog over the obstacle.You can then incorporate obedience into the obstacle work.

I could go on and on but that is a good place to begin.

I get you man :wink: And I'll re-focus her onto something else when her
behavior is fearful.

All the advice from this forum is ALREADY paying off! Her behavior has
"relaxed" A WHOLE HECK OF ALLOT! She's really (re)bonding with me -
and the kids. I tell you, we can learn SO MUCH from our dogs. Sable has,
from what it seems, forgiven the kids, and me as her pack leader for even
allowing something to happen. We're pulling through, her and I, as a team.

Greg, you have so elequently put it, "She will then follow and start to take
direction IF you have the DESIRE to communicate with her." Yes, I desire
this, and am applying our training/bonding in such a way that Sable and I
will be closer because, and not dispite, the horrible incident she has gone
through...

-----------------------------------------------------
Replies welcome: :wink:

Once the bond between Sable and I is back where is should be, and I can
begin (light???) OB again, what would you sport dog trainers be consentrating
on w/a 9 month old soft bitch w/medium prey drive?

See less See more

Jose Alberto Reanto

· #30 · Sep 8, 2006

Martin Espericueta said:
I get you man :wink: And I'll re-focus her onto something else when her
behavior is fearful.

Replies welcome: :wink:

Once the bond between Sable and I is back where is should be, and I can
begin (light???) OB again, what would you sport dog trainers be consentrating
on w/a 9 month old soft bitch w/medium prey drive?

I think the focus should be on the work and the handler, not on "something else". Working this way as Greg suggests, stress that becomes "fearfull" to the dog must be overcome by going thru it with its handler.

You may likewise want to do like most do, throw a ball, play tug or toy and let the dog build tons of prey. It doesn't need "oneness" with the dog.

Hope it helps...

Greg Long

· #31 · Sep 8, 2006

Yes, I should have been a little more specific.You are 100% correct,Al.

What you are seeing and calling "fear" is an instinctive reaction in the dog.The dog is starting to take flight.You should tell the dog "its ok I see it" and then imediately work through or around whatever it is that is causing that stress.You dont tell the dog its ok and then stop or go away from the stress.You must tell the dog its ok and work through the stress and continue the task at hand.Then afterwards both you and the dog are stronger and better for it.

Connie Sutherland

· #32 · Sep 8, 2006

From the vantage of someone who's working with another person's borderline-phobic dog, I have to say that these last two posts, especially, are great.

Connie Sutherland

· #33 · Sep 8, 2006

BTW, Martin, I'm not sure this was answered...

QUOTE: Once the bond between Sable and I is back where is should be (why would she be fearful w/me anyway?) END

Some dogs who were abused by men or big boys might then be fearful around all men and big boys.

Sounds like you've made a good start with restoring her confidence.

Martin Espericueta

Discussion Starter · #34 · Sep 12, 2006

You should tell the dog "its ok I see it" and then imediately work through or around whatever it is that is causing that stress

Yes, I understand this. Her stress was geared toward me - even though
the actual abuse was from my sons. I'm the only one to use the "Heir"
command w/Sable, and her reaction to it has been one of cowering.

Connie's answer about how some dogs who were abused by men or big
boys might then be fearful around all men and big boys - really hits the
nail on the head. You make perfect sense Connie. It was happening to my
dog!

I've been really working with her, and applying ALL the great advice given
in this thread. And guess what? Sable is doing GREAT

So, to update y'all, Sable IS doing tons better

She no longer cowers when called. My sons STILL are NOT allowed to do
anything w/her unless supervised by myself, and I have to say that she is
actually a happier dog working through this.

So I'll close this chapter in Sable's life, learning from it and being a better
handler for it.

I'll post a new thread on the SchH training issues I have, and anything else
for that matter. Thanks to all!

Say hello Sable:

Sable, don't stick your tongue out at these nice people:

See less See more

2

Connie Sutherland

· #35 · Sep 12, 2006

Good work, Martin.

susan tuck

· #36 · Sep 12, 2006

Good job, Martin & I LOVE those pictures. \

/ \

/

Sarah Hall

· #37 · Sep 12, 2006

Sable is a cutie! Gotta love the tounge pics!

See less See more

Jeff Oehlsen

· #38 · Sep 14, 2006

Quote: what would you sport dog trainers be consentrating
on w/a 9 month old soft bitch w/medium prey drive?

There is only so much you can do. Drive building is often suggested, but the reality is that there is a strong probability that there isn't enough there.

I would say use her to practice your handling and training skills while looking for a new dog to use for Sch. Doesn't take much, as we all know how weak this sport is. :lol: Once you have trained a skill with a dog, it isn't nearly as weird the next time you train it.

I would start tracking and send aways and all the stuff that is interesting somewhat, as the basic OB isn't killer brain surgeon material.

I would also consider if I were you of doing agility as well. It can be helpful with the rest with a weak dog, as the work is not hard and fun. It also helps your dog understand your body language better in a relaxed situation, as I doubt you would take it as seriously.

See less See more

Woody Taylor

· #39 · Sep 14, 2006

Jeff Oehlsen said:
Quote: what would you sport dog trainers be consentrating
on w/a 9 month old soft bitch w/medium prey drive?

There is only so much you can do. Drive building is often suggested, but the reality is that there is a strong probability that there isn't enough there.

I would say use her to practice your handling and training skills while looking for a new dog to use for Sch. Doesn't take much, as we all know how weak this sport is. :lol: Once you have trained a skill with a dog, it isn't nearly as weird the next time you train it.

I would start tracking and send aways and all the stuff that is interesting somewhat, as the basic OB isn't killer brain surgeon material.

I would also consider if I were you of doing agility as well. It can be helpful with the rest with a weak dog, as the work is not hard and fun. It also helps your dog understand your body language better in a relaxed situation, as I doubt you would take it as seriously.

Yep, Martin, I think this is a good approach for you. Don't sweat the bitework stuff now, work on the stuff Jeff's suggesting here. Good for you, good for the dog and the dog's confidence.

Martin Espericueta

Discussion Starter · #40 · Sep 14, 2006

Quote by Jeff Oehlsen:

There is only so much you can do. Drive building is often suggested, but the reality is that there is a strong probability that there isn't enough there.

I would say use her to practice your handling and training skills while looking for a new dog to use for Sch. Doesn't take much, as we all know how weak this sport is. :lol: Once you have trained a skill with a dog, it isn't nearly as weird the next time you train it.

I would start tracking and send aways and all the stuff that is interesting somewhat, as the basic OB isn't killer brain surgeon material.

I would also consider if I were you of doing agility as well. It can be helpful with the rest with a weak dog, as the work is not hard and fun. It also helps your dog understand your body language better in a relaxed situation, as I doubt you would take it as seriously.

I was given the 1st bit of advice from Gregg Tawney when he evaled Sable
at 5 months. Train her as far as she'll go, not as far as I want her to
go, if she doesn't have the drive to carry her through. Gregg said (and
now you - great minds...) that I'll learn tons about "reading" a dog
- learning how to build drive, learning specific techniques, etc., and when/if
I ever get a "high-drive"/"genetically apt"/"insert your favorite term here",
working dog, I'll be a MUCH better handler then.

I'll start to train her in tracking, and the other "fun" stuff, like the send-away.
BTW, she's really having fun now w/playtimes!

Agility - where to begin? I'll post separate threads for 1) Agility training,
2) Tracking, 3) Send away, and, 4) etc! Does it count that on our daily
walks (I've got a killer cold/flu right now, so she's stuck indoors w/me

)
to the local park, I lead her onto the jungle gym? She loves to "hup" onto
picnic tables, and I do "sitz/platz" stuff while high up on the kids play gym.

Morning times, and SOME evenings there's no one at the park, so I let her
off leash for "bringen" and "chase the human (me) around as he runs out
of breath".

Woody Taylor said:

Yep, Martin, I think this is a good approach for you. Don't sweat the bitework stuff now, work on the stuff Jeff's suggesting here. Good for you, good for the dog and the dog's confidence.

I'll be - maybe once every 2/3 weeks - training w/a buddy of mine on
bitework. Is that going to be too much too soon? Strickly prey drive building,
getting her to bite a "real" sleeve (not my wife's jeans rolled up on my arm :wink: )
Back-tying her in order to frustrate some bark out of her w/a sleeve as a prey
item.

I know enough to NOT mess her up w/defensive stuff at her age - so:
- NO DEFENCE yet until she's, maybe what, 18 months? He has a 3 year
old Dobe (have you been reading the thread, GSD VS DOBE other
there?) - very well behaved and socialized.

See less See more

21 - 40 of 44 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.