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How well are we doing in the advancement of Protection dogs? :?:

Trying to understand this industry is at times like trying to make sense of mud pie. :!:

Many have tried to form one body that will represent working dogs – (out side of the sports arena and context of course). This has been marginally and in some instances regionally successful. However, this is still no-mans land as far as what I am concerned (by not factoring in the Police and Military professionals that are well established) – On the civilian side where we still don’t see any governing body for civilian used and trained dogs that know what they are talking about, why is that?

Well I have my own theory. The main reason I suppose is that Trainers hate being described too – just like fishermen - everyone has his own secret recipe that works for him. That does not prescribe to uniformity with one code, rather just similarity. Had we prescribes a best practice for training that should be used long ago…I think we would have been worse off, the main reason is that we follow many paths to reach the same and final objective and most of them are as inconsolable as water and fire when compared. There are just too many factors that play a role in getting to the final product.

Mostly the skilled and knowledgeable in this field has or had some military or police influence in my experience that guides them in their own training methodology. However without going out on a limb here and not discounting the sport dog fanatics, they have also been very successful.

The point is this, we comment on protection dog training as if it is set ideology – it is not, it is mostly ambiguous to a certain extent especially for new comers, for with any animal training we are just scratching the surface of what is deemed to be possible. Have we built a ceiling for our selves, or will we when we unite.

Is it not high time that we at least admit that this industry has become inconsolable due to the diversity we have to face amongst our selves?

The only up side is that we now have a tool (the internet that individualize us) to share the training, and experiences with. If it is true that unity is strength then why are we still acting as individuals?

How do we solve this problem and consolidate our pool of intellect to save and better the industry? :wink:
 

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How do we solve this problem and consolidate our pool of intellect to save and better the industry?
To a degree it already happens - as you well put it - via the Internet. It's very difficult for people with BIG egos to find commercial advantage through sharing however.
 

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Reinier Geel said:
Is it not high time that we at least admit that this industry has become inconsolable due to the diversity we have to face amongst our selves?
You're being too generous, how about "the PPD industry sucks" because there is no code of ethics, no monitoring, abusive training for dogs unable to truly do the work, abusive training for dogs who could otherwise do the work, unscrupulous trainers, idiotic macho owners, placement of PPDs in situations where they have no place, no objective set of metrics to actually gauge the success of various PPD trainers, trainers too reliant on mysticism to cover up basic and commonsense training, PPD placement with owners who have no idea how to handle their dogs, no consistent guidelines on maintenance training, exotic breed specialists that distort what a PPD is and is supposed to be capable of, no real objective experiences of PPD application to benchmark success and failure in the real world, and did I mention that I the vast majority of people who own PPDs either have no need or no capability handling these animals?

I think it has very little to do with the wonderful diversity of trainers and their secret recipes. I think it has a lot to do with money and crap training by unethical trainers and idiot owners.

I'll be out walking my Timbershepherd if someone needs me.
 

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Woody...you are the type that might indeed own a Timbershepherd. :wink:
 

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Mike Schoonbrood said:
What the heck is a timbershepherd? Is that Justin Timberlake's breeding program????
Wolf/shepherd hybrids that used to be marketed as the ultimate protection dog.

Greg...no...but your reponse is kind of my point.
 

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Woody asked an unusually good question sometime back, regarding a "minimum" skill set that PPD trainers taught their "pupils". The only individual who answered the question specifically was yours truly. I expected a few more specific replies from some of our PPD trainer-posters...and got none. The thread petered out.

Back in prehistoria, Woody also asked about handler screening...to which he recieved a few philosophical answers. None practical. People generally answer questions that were NOT ASKED.

All this within an Internet forum where we "like" each other. Some of us have even met, and continued to like each other. We recently had an offer from down under made to someone that likes rusted trucks, relating to moving in together!

Even though the benefits of collaboration FAR outweigh its costs...it doesn't happen much...EVEN HERE!
 

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Andres Martin said:
We recently had an offer from down under made to someone that likes rusted trucks, relating to moving in together!
Somebody wants to move into Greg's ugly trailers? Did he tell them about the dogs on top of them?

The PPD industry is too corrupt and the impact of its outputs...i.e., the dogs themselves...too difficult to measure to really legitimize itself.
 

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Twenty years ago, when I used to try to sneak up on people in the night...my absolute worst nightmare were our local PPDs. Small to medium sized, Darwin style breeding and selection process, fed tortillas and whatever THEY could hunt, "trained" to guard by virtue of their extraordinary bond with their owners, who underfed them, kicked them frequently, etc.

It was very difficult to overcome that line of defenses undetected - to say the least.

Mongrel dogs fascinate me. Versatile hunters of everything from iguanas to deer. Easy family dogs. They are insurmountable as PPDs.

No one teaches them anything. There is no "drive building". They delineate their owner's terrirritory perfectly, and hold it. They are not trained to be PPDs. They simply "are". How? Why?
 

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Andres Martin said:
No one teaches them anything. There is no "drive building". They delineate their owner's terrirritory perfectly, and hold it. They are not trained to be PPDs. They simply "are". How? Why?
Are you asking, or is that a loaded question? Just wondering, seriously.
 

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Either way...I'm asking! :lol: :lol:

It's an honest question...
There's a lot in that kind of man-dog relationship that's "outside" the upper classes in the dog world's radar screen, IMO.

By the way, regarding the rusted trucks thing...the actual "suggestion" was the following...
Hey Greg, you wouldn't want to come and live with me for a while would you? I have a horse too \:D/ kissy, kissy
I may have used a small bit of editorial freedom...but not much!
 

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woody--if you need some fresh genetics for your wolves, i saw an ad in the paper here today for 8 wk old wolf cubs--only $300 :eek:

sorry OT.....
 

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Actually, here's a challenge for any of you a bit bored on our national holiday today. Google "protection dogs." Tell me which of the top 15-20 google returns look "legit" to you. Then compare that with the % of sites with pictures of their ferocious dogs in front of exotic sportscars. Then compare that with the % of sites with pictures of their dogs in front of exotic sportscars, with either a baby or a scantily-clad woman (with the 80's haircut) posing on the hood somewhere on their site.

I bet you those three numbers are within 5% of each other.

Corrupt industry. Why?
 

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ann freier said:
woody--if you need some fresh genetics for your wolves, i saw an ad in the paper here today for 8 wk old wolf cubs--only $300 :eek:

sorry OT.....
Those are from my stock. Buy them before they run away.
 

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Simon Mellick said:
The $50,000 dog from protectiondogs.com seemed like a much better deal before I did the math... I'd much rather have 166 wolf cubs.
For $50K, interestingly enough, they throw in the 80s model stretched across the Diablo.

Edited to say, "or the baby." That's the Level VX protection package.
 

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Is there really an "industry" when it comes to civilian PP-dogs? Most dogs that are protectiontrained are either doing some form of sportwork or are working in the servicesector like police/security, at least in my corner of the world. Training a dog in protection if you are not going to compete or have it in your job is quite controversial here, I guess due to all people who thinks it cool to have an angry,snarling dog at the lead :)
 

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Erik Berg said:
Is there really an "industry" when it comes to civilian PP-dogs? Most dogs that are protectiontrained are either doing some form of sportwork or are working in the servicesector like police/security, at least in my corner of the world. Training a dog in protection if you are not going to compete or have it in your job is quite controversial here, I guess due to all people who thinks it cool to have an angry,snarling dog at the lead :)
HeeHoHo, yes, things are a bit different out here in the States.
 

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Besides, Erik, what you are describing potentially involves commitment and exercise on the part of the owner. What the hell is your problem, anyway? :lol:
 
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