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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So as covered in the other thread, Fawkes is exhibiting symptoms of vaccinosis. He received the DHPP vaccination (don't remember who made the vaccine) on Monday and today (Saturday), he was lethargic and has slept most of the day, had gunky eyes, mucous-y diarrhea, and about 2 hours ago, he was walking with a slight limp. The joints in his legs and his paws feel a bit warm to the touch. His appetite is so-so (he'll eat, but he's not excited about it) and he will drink water (added a little splash of Gatorade to his water as I'm out of Pedialyte). He seems to be okay on the hydration and the gum capillary fill. I've given him 2 tablets of Endosorb for the diarrhea and 1500 mg of ester C and put his pail of water in his crate for over night so he can drink as much as he likes.

I called the emergency room at the vet school (the only e-vet in town that I'm aware of) and the vet tech (I guess a vet couldn't talk to me?) told me it was probably unrelated. Yeah right... :roll: Anyways, if I am going to have to go in and spend $125+ on an emergency visit later tonight or tomorrow, I will go after the manufacturer of the vaccination for the cost of the bills. What also troubles me is that the vet hospital I usually go to said that they no longer use the DHLPP because too many adverse reactions were happening recently with the lepto component. This makes me wonder if there is something else afoot in one of the other fractions. Anyways, if anyone knows of any websites that discuss vaccinosis and its symptoms, I'd like to hear about it (read the Leerburg and Shirley's Wellness Cafe sites).
 

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Could he not be showing symptoms of a "bug" picked up in the vets office?
I never like taking puppies in if I can avoid it as I think it is a great place to meet sick dogs.
 

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QUOTE:
Controversy arises because some dogs are allergic to the carrier in the lepto vaccine; as a result, some veterinarians no longer use the inoculant in areas.... END from http://www.canismajor.com/dog/lepto.html


QUOTE:
Lepto is, for a variety of reasons, a vaccine where the risk vs benefit analysis changes tremendously from case to case. END from http://www.caberfeidh.com/Lepto.htm
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So Fawkes woke me up this morning at 4:30 AM, so I took him out. Very dark outside but I could tell it was more diarrhea. Woke up at 8 AM to take him out again and he had diarrhea in his crate with a few drops of blood. Ran him over to the vet school's ER. 4 hours and $300 later...no definitive anything. His white cell count was high, but that was the only blood work issue. He had a fever of 105.2 F. He was parvo negative according to the ELISA. Fecal float was unremarkable. They wanted me to keep him in the ICU, but I said I was comfortable trying to give him sub Q fluids, which I'll give him in a little bit.

Got two types of antibiotics and a bag of lactated ringers. He got 200 ml of fluids SQ at the ER, took him home and had a nap, woke up and was a little more cheerful and active. Ate some canned duck for lunch and some cooked chicken and pumpkin a few minutes ago, so appetite seems better. Due to his high white blood cell count, I'd say there some kind of an immune response to something, which still makes me suspect the vaccine. There are not any holistic vets around here, but I'll try calling a few in the state tomorrow to get some opinions.
 

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oh my god, Maren. I'm keeping everything crossed for you and the little guy. Thank goodness you are observant and diligent. Please keep updating us with his condition.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well, one good thing is that I was better at giving the sub Q lactated ringers than the 4th year vet student. \\:D/ She kept sticking him and had it coming out the other side. Guess grad school and injecting 20 zillion little mice is helpful for something after all. :grin: Plus having DH hold a Kong for him to lick while I was putting it in was helpful as well. His rectal temperature looks to have come down to the mid 101s or so too.
 

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Glad to hear Fawkes is doing better Maren. Gotta admit I had to do alot of reading once I saw your post....made me realize there but the grace of God go I (or Zane).....hoping Fawkes continues to improve and there are no lingering effects.
 

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.... he had diarrhea in his crate with a few drops of blood. .... His white cell count was high, but that was the only blood work issue. He had a fever of 105.2 ... had a nap, woke up and was a little more cheerful and active. Ate some canned duck for lunch and some cooked chicken and pumpkin a few minutes ago, so appetite seems better. Due to his high white blood cell count, I'd say there some kind of an immune response to something, which still makes me suspect the vaccine. There are not any holistic vets around here, but I'll try calling a few in the state tomorrow to get some opinions.
QUOTE: Maybe he has a slight fever or lack of appetite and energy for a day or so. .... fever or maybe a day of diarrhea. END from http://www.angelfire.com/biz/froghollerfilas/VaccBlanco.html
in a description of mild vaccinosis symptoms.

I'm really glad he's OK, and it does sound like he's going to be OK.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
He's still not doing great, but is doing better all things considered. Tomorrow, I am going to call my usual vet hospital and let them know and in a few weeks, I'd like a titer done on distemper and parvo. If he's good to go on antibodies, I'm not vaccinating him for that again. I'll ask around what the opinions are on getting his rabies vaccination (I was planning on doing it at 6 months instead of 4 months).
 

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just out of curiosity: how much SQ LR was your 4th year trying to give in one spot? the whole bag???!!! and what size needle? a 14 for god's sake?

at any rate, i'm glad YOU are taking care of Fawkes.

is this vet school ER the school you'll be attending maren? (i assume it is..) hope you can help them out a bit.

having just re-read your post: 200 ml in a guy Fawkes' age--i bet he's a bit "lumpy". neck:neck. then what: flank:flank? even 50 ml in each--he's lumpy. or are you doing 4 in the neck...i'm curious so let me know--i'm used to having, oh, at least 100# of animal to work with, so that gives me all kinds of SQ opportunities.

anyway--you guys'll be fine :)
 

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Poor puppy, poked full of holes like swiss cheese by nervous student. As if he didn't have enough to deal with! Good thing he's at home!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yup, it's good ol' Missouri. We've been doing 100 mls at a time instead. Otherwise, I'd be poking him probably 5 or 6 times all over his back to get 200 mls in. Just got done with another dose and he looks like he's got eggs under his skin now, though they smooth out after a few hours. I didn't look at the gauge, but it looks like about 14-16 gauge. He's still drinking okay, so I'm not going to be real obsessive about it. The 4th year was from Ross...AKA: the vet/med school in the Caribbean where folks generally go where they can't get in elsewhere in the States. :roll: I've heard some sketchy things. Anywho...she was nice, but perhaps a bit nervous. Fawkes was so good at the hospital though. Fell asleep on the stainless steel exam table probably cause it felt so good to be cool with a high fever.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well, good news. Fawkes is about 70-80% back to his normal little snarky self. He's still a little quiet, but he's walking better now (don't have to carry him out to potty), and his appetite is good enough to ignore me jabbing him with a needle to give him his subcutaneous fluids in favor of working on a Kong. He'll be on antibiotics for another 2 weeks and I'll still try to make him take it easy for another few days at least, but fat chance of that! :) I kinda miss the sweet lil' puppy though. He was fun to cuddle when he was sick. ;) I called a holistic vet clinic in St. Louis and they agreed that getting a titer for parvo and distemper was probably a good way to go in lieu of his next shots, if possible.
 

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Oh man, I just read this thread, I think I'm glad I read it when I did since it started out with him being sick, but ended up with him on the mend.

When I had Nexxus litter, I got MUCH better at administering SQ fluids then I ever wanted to. And let me just say, you can fit 100-150ml of fluids into a 8 week old Malinois pup, with a single needle stick. Mine got squirrely about being stuck repeatedly, so I tried to minimize that, and the fluid kept flowing just fine, so ... They looked like a hunchback, and then it would kind of settle down over one shoulder, but it worked.

I'd definitely go for the titer's, and if he's good, no more vaccines. And hold off on the rabies for now, I don't do it until 8 - 10 months a lot of the time. You might talk to Deb on the Dantero list also, she's done a LOT of research into this stuff and would be a good resource.
 

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Going to recommend these books for anyone interested; I've used them and I've been very happy with what I used them for.
Homeoepathic Medicine for Dogs - H.G. Wolff - suggests Thuja (can be bought at most health food stores for about $6-7) for vaccinosis.
Dogs Homoeopathic Remedies - George Macleod
Homeopathic First Aid for Animals - Kaetheryn Walker - i think I got all of them on abe books or amazon; or any of the other second hand sellers as well.
Hope the dude continues to feel better. Remember too much Vit C induces loose bowels; so hard to know when to supplement and when too much is creating a problem. I believe Shirley's Wellness Cafe has a protocol to use with regards to Vit C.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks Jennifer. I had someone else PM me and suggest Thuja. He appears to be about 90% better, but it's probably a good idea to have on hand. I'll go look for it at the local health food store. I have been giving him 1000 mg of ester C twice a day. The poop is looking better and a bit firmer, so that's an improvement!
 

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Thanks Jennifer. I had someone else PM me and suggest Thuja. He appears to be about 90% better, but it's probably a good idea to have on hand. I'll go look for it at the local health food store. I have been giving him 1000 mg of ester C twice a day. The poop is looking better and a bit firmer, so that's an improvement!
Is he 100% now, Maren?
 
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