Support for UScA policy of not accepting GSDCA-WDA scorebooks?

10758 Views 43 Replies 11 Participants Last post by Lacey Vessell, Dec 9, 2011

Pam Nicolaides Rizkallah

Discussion Starter · Dec 2, 2011

I am curious how much support, from people who are in the schutzhund sport, of the UScA policy to not accept scorebooks or titles issued from the GSDCA-WDA? If you do or do not support, what is your rationale as to how your view benefits to the sport and potential solutions?

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Lacey Vessell

· #2 · Dec 6, 2011

Pam Nicolaides said:
I am curious how much support, from people who are in the schutzhund sport, of the UScA policy to not accept scorebooks or titles issued from the GSDCA-WDA? If you do or do not support, what is your rationale as to how your view benefits to the sport and potential solutions?

I did not see an actual poll, but I DO NOT SUPPORT UScA's policy on this, but that's not surprising since I don't support the JA either. They can do whatever they want - as I don't care for the organization, but this is a poll and I never have problems giving my opinion

I don't think we can actually blame UScA on this one alone as from my understanding NONE of the AWDF affiliated clubs will accept scorebooks or titles from the GSDCA-WDA because they are not a member of the AWDF. I asked this specifically of the AWMA and was told that because the GSDCA-WDA is not a member club of the AWDF - the scores would not be accepted. Funny though - Mike West usta be a UScA judge and they accepted his judging abilities when he was a part of the UScA...his abilities must have changed just because he went over to WDA#-oI would think that if the judge at a WDA trial is an SV Judge then all the organization would then have to accept the score/title/judge - but who knows.

GSDCA-WDA will accept UScA, AWDF etc scorebooks and will honor other organizations judges scores AND you don't get slammed with extra fees because you are not a member of GSDCA-WDA.

I am a member of DVG, AWMA and GSDCA-WDA - so I have my Malinois' covered for trialing and my GSD

UScA can do whatever........

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Thomas Barriano

· #3 · Dec 6, 2011

HI Lacey

I agree the policy is stupid and nothing but political. Both
UScA and GSDCA/WDA and their score books are recognized by the SV. Lots of non AWDF scorebooks are recognized by
AWDF member clubs (SV, DV Any FCI or VDH scorebook)
In fact the DVG only became an AWDF member fairly recently
and DVG score books were always recognized before.
GSDCA/WDA score books aren't recognized because of all
the turmoil and politics between them and USCA.
AWDF is bullied and dominated by UScA.
Al Govednik AWDF President is a UScA Judge former Regional Director and held various other UScA offices. Lyle Roetemeyer is the current UScA President and AWDF VP. Sean Kane is Treasurer of both Organizations :-(
The relationship is almost incestuous.
UScA continues to thrive on account of their judging program and network of clubs and trainer and decoys. If it was based on the politics of those in charge. It would sink faster then the Titanic. UScA can only hope that the AWDF is never taken over by the rest of the member clubs or another GSD organization
(RSV200?) doesn't appear on the horizon. When/if it does in the future we'll be talking about UScA like we talk about NASA
now

Lacey Vessell said:
I did not see an actual poll, but I DO NOT SUPPORT UScA's policy on this, but that's not surprising since I don't support the JA either. They can do whatever they want - as I don't care for the organization, but this is a poll and I never have problems giving my opinion

I don't think we can actually blame UScA on this one alone as from my understanding NONE of the AWDF affiliated clubs will accept scorebooks or titles from the GSDCA-WDA because they are not a member of the AWDF. I asked this specifically of the AWMA and was told that because the GSDCA-WDA is not a member club of the AWDF - the scores would not be accepted. Funny though - Mike West usta be a UScA judge and they accepted his judging abilities when he was a part of the UScA...his abilities must have changed just because he went over to WDA#-oI would think that if the judge at a WDA trial is an SV Judge then all the organization would then have to accept the score/title/judge - but who knows.

GSDCA-WDA will accept UScA, AWDF etc scorebooks and will honor other organizations judges scores AND you don't get slammed with extra fees because you are not a member of GSDCA-WDA.

I am a member of DVG, AWMA and GSDCA-WDA - so I have my Malinois' covered for trialing and my GSD UScA can do whatever........

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Dana McMahan

· #4 · Dec 7, 2011

Lacey Vessell said:
I asked this specifically of the AWMA and was told that because the GSDCA-WDA is not a member club of the AWDF - the scores would not be accepted.

Who did you ask in the AWMA and what was it relating to?

Keith Jenkins

· #5 · Dec 7, 2011

Stupid policy on USA's part not to mention the JA crap. BTW DVG does recognize WDA scorebooks.

Thomas Barriano

· #6 · Dec 7, 2011

Dana Williams said:
Who did you ask in the AWMA and what was it relating to?

Dana,

Does AWMA accept GSDCA/WDA scorebooks?

It will all be a moot point in January. The new IPO rules stated the
judge will only accept ONE Scorebook/trial The old days of Judges signing your UScA scorebook and then signing your DVG or UDC or? score books are no more

Maren Bell Jones

· #7 · Dec 7, 2011

Can I ask a random DVG question? My understanding was to be a DVG member, you had to be a member of a DVG club and you couldn't be an independent. Did I understand that correctly? If so, what's their reasoning in that? That's the main reason I'm a USA member and not DVG (even though I've entered at DVG trials with a USA scorebook) was because they allow independent members. Speaking of which, I still need to get my USA scorebook signed from our March trial BH and AD. Oops!

susan tuck

· #8 · Dec 7, 2011

Maren Bell Jones said:
Can I ask a random DVG question? My understanding was to be a DVG member, you had to be a member of a DVG club and you couldn't be an independent. Did I understand that correctly? If so, what's their reasoning in that? That's the main reason I'm a USA member and not DVG (even though I've entered at DVG trials with a USA scorebook) was because they allow independent members. Speaking of which, I still need to get my USA scorebook signed from our March trial BH and AD. Oops!

You join DVG but only by becoming a member of a DVG club, you can't join DVG independent of a DVG club.
http://dvgamerica.com/
scroll down the left hand side and click on "membership info"

Personally I am a member of UScA, will most likely always be a member of UScA, have never been a member of GSDCA-WDA, and have no desire to join GSDCA-WDA. Even if the JA bothered me as much as it does some, no way would I quit UScA in favor of GSDCA-WDA, because that would be cutting off my nose to spite my face. GSDCA-WDA is primarily about the show dog, they have far fewer trials. After the JA it seemed like I heard a lot about how WDA was going to expand in the area of schutzhund, but for whatever reason, that didn't happen. Not for nothing many people who left because they were angry about the JA have come back to UScA. Now the GSDCA-WDA membership has voted Yee the President.....yikes and wow!!!!!! So much for one member one vote, if that's the result I am happy as hell you can't do that in UScA.
:lol:

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susan tuck

· #9 · Dec 7, 2011

Pam Nicolaides said:
I am curious how much support, from people who are in the schutzhund sport, of the UScA policy to not accept scorebooks or titles issued from the GSDCA-WDA? If you do or do not support, what is your rationale as to how your view benefits to the sport and potential solutions?

To the original question, there would be no reason for UScA to accept WDA scorebooks since there is no relationship between them and they aren't a member of WUSV or AWDF. I believe if the titles are awarded by SV judges, then the titles are recognized by UScA, no?

Christopher Smith

· #10 · Dec 7, 2011

susan tuck said:
I believe if the titles are awarded by SV judges, then the titles are recognized by UScA, no?

WDA scorebooks are not recognized. If it's a SV judge the title is recognized as long as it's not in a WDA scorebook.

Thomas Barriano

· #11 · Dec 7, 2011

Maren Bell Jones said:
Can I ask a random DVG question? My understanding was to be a DVG member, you had to be a member of a DVG club and you couldn't be an independent. Did I understand that correctly? If so, what's their reasoning in that? That's the main reason I'm a USA member and not DVG (even though I've entered at DVG trials with a USA scorebook) was because they allow independent members. Speaking of which, I still need to get my USA scorebook signed from our March trial BH and AD. Oops!

There are plenty of DVG clubs that will list you as a member for a minimal associate member fee. You can be a member of a club and not train with them. I am a USCA member and train with a USCA club. I also have DVG membership which I'm letting expire at the end of the year for economic reasons

Thomas Barriano

· #12 · Dec 7, 2011

Christopher Smith said:
WDA scorebooks are not recognized. If it's a SV judge the title is recognized as long as it's not in a WDA scorebook.

After January 2012 will SV judges still sign USCA score books
at GSDCA/WDA trials or will they follow the new rules of one score book/dog/trial
Of course you can just present a USCA scorebook only?

Lacey Vessell

· #13 · Dec 7, 2011

Dana Williams said:
Who did you ask in the AWMA and what was it relating to?

Dana I actually sent an email to several board members several months ago when I wanted to trial at a GSDCA-WDA trial with my Malinois....I sent emails one at a time waiting for a response in between, but I understand people are busy. I finally ended up on the top of the list and asked Anne - the response I received was that no....GSDCA-WDA scores/titles/judges are NOT recognized by the AWMA because GSDCA-WDA is not a member club of the AWDF. I figure it was gospel coming from Anne;-)

Charles Wrenn

· #14 · Dec 7, 2011

I think its crazy that AWMA doesnt accept a title from a WDA club....I for one just received my SCH 3 title under judge MIKE WEST...Mr. West was approved for many years under USCA...Now all of a sudden his ink on my scorebook is unacceptable to AWMA....I wish AWMA would re look at their policies towards this in the future!

Keith Jenkins

· #15 · Dec 7, 2011

Funny this has to do with the WDA not belonging to the AWDF when DVG honors their trials and judges and scorebooks and they are a member of the AWDF.

BTW...nice job with that knot-head! =D>

Christopher Smith

· #16 · Dec 7, 2011

Charles Wrenn said:
I think its crazy that AWMA doesnt accept a title from a WDA club....I for one just received my SCH 3 title under judge MIKE WEST...Mr. West was approved for many years under USCA...Now all of a sudden his ink on my scorebook is unacceptable to AWMA....I wish AWMA would re look at their policies towards this in the future!

It's not an AWMA rule. It's an AWDF rule. This also is not an anti-West rule. AWDF rules say that member clubs can only accept other members judges and FCI judges. Since Mike is no longer a member or FCI judge ....

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Keith Jenkins

· #17 · Dec 7, 2011

Christopher Smith said:
It's not an AWMA rule. It's an AWDF rule. This also is not an anti-West rule. AWDF rules say that member clubs can only accept other members judges and FCI judges. Since Mike is no longer a member or FCI judge ....

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Care to point out in the AWDF by-laws exactly where that is?

I'm telling you right now DVG still accepts WDA scorebooks and titles under WDA judges using DVG scorebooks so I guess they didn't get that AWDF memo.

This is along the lines that USA/AWDF tried like crazy to not let the AWMA and UDC from working with their AKC counterparts to verify titles for AKC pedigrees.

Christopher Smith

· #18 · Dec 7, 2011

Keith Jenkins said:
Care to point out in the AWDF by-laws exactly where that is?

I'm telling you right now DVG still accepts WDA scorebooks and titles under WDA judges using DVG scorebooks so I guess they didn't get that AWDF memo.

This is along the lines that USA/AWDF tried like crazy to not let the AWMA and UDC from working with their AKC counterparts to verify titles for AKC pedigrees.

Just because a club is doing something does not mean that they are in compliance with the rules. For instance there's, and has been for years, a IPO rule saying that you can only have one scorebook.

If you want to see the rule you should contact the AWDF secretary or use the website.

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Keith Jenkins

· #19 · Dec 7, 2011

What's discussed over a beer and written on a cocktail napkin doesn't make a rule. It's not in their by-laws..period.

DVG has honored WDA titles and scorebooks long before they became members of the AWDF.

DVG requires as a DVG member that I use DVG scorebooks at their trials. AWDF decided that to enter the AWDF Championship you had to have an AWDF scorebook. AWDF agreed to sign both books so I guess that single scorebook issue isn't always enforced now is it?

Christopher Smith

· #20 · Dec 7, 2011

So you contacted the secretary that quickly?

You should also contact her about the difference between a rule and a bylaw.

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