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Stress in obedience.

18046 Views 85 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  Lyn Chen
My view is that if you can get a puppy to obey while it is under stress (measured according to the pups ability, not age, and progressing accordingly), you will end up with a stable and very obedient dog.

An excellent example is what you can see in Al Reanto's dogs.

As very significant by products, dogs trained in this fashion are also VERY self-confident, very focused and VERY agile and surefooted.

This "way" is directly opposed to the treats and rewards "way", because in the latter the dog works FOR HIMSELF, and in the former the dog works because of the bond between himself and the handler, and thus FOR THE HANDLER.

This "way" is not for sport dogs; at least not for sport programmes as they are currently configured, as you will not see the artificial "animation" that is so well liked in competition.

What you do see though, is a strong work ethic.
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Andres – my money is on you in this round, and by the way good reasoning and post – I agree with what you think and say – good strong advice and experience showing here, this does not come from sitting at some ones feet, it comes from having trained several dogs for real life situations yourself - i think. Bravo - my friend, a tip of the hat to you. :wink:

Being street smart and having the experience to back it up, can beat any challenger in a street fight – or should that be a Bar fight – Jeff, just kidding.
Lyn - repetition is the key.

Obedience is the result of repetative disciplined work – how you consistently apply, your obedience training, will be the gauge – obedience is give and take. Yes some compulsion, coercion, and some grooming and affection, all in equal measures. – dogs are all about aggression, and how you control it. You can control aggression with both food and a stick.

I think
Connie;, without getting tecnical.

In my experience, dogs – young one’s are just like kids, they have very little fear – we pass on and teach them most of our personal fears. Let me explain thgis with a short actual scenario:

My one friend is a serious biker, he got him self a pup, and wanted to train it, as he lives in a rural area. He phoned me, and asked when can he come to train. My advice to him was – slow it down, let the dog be a dog first, and when he turns six months bring him, concentrate on socialising, as much as possible –We have little contact. So low and behold he took this to the extreme. He took the dog with on breakfast runs and on the back of his pick up, everywhere even to town. The dog sleeps in the house at his bedside – he is still single.

Then one day he arrived with a big fat dog, for training, this dog has everything a trainers hart will desire, he is well socialised with people, has no fear of load noises, will climb into and onto anything. In addition, he is as sharp as a whistle. Training was a breeze.

In my mind, stress is social interaction, and exposure to the environment we live in.

i Think :wink:
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Connie Sutherland said:
Reinier Geel said:
But this whole thread started (I think) as an argument *against* food used in training. Didn't it?

Quote: This "way" is directly opposed to the treats and rewards "way" END QUOTE
Connie – food or no food – the point is – whichever way you go – as long as you end up with a well-disciplined and social pup. – Then it worked – right or wrong – this is a general thread.

On the back of this; I will take a completely different stance if it was in the Police working environment context, on this, however, I did train civilian dogs, and have seen this – food thing work - to believe it.

I think :wink:
Connie – don’t worry about it - I am well socialised as well, and wont bite, if you miss pronounce / spelled my name – grrrrrrr

My son responds well to treats and not so well to correction, so I bribe him, and at time I just give him a good correction, which ever works in that situation we find our selves in – becomes instinctive

I think
Lyn – YES, to reiterate this point – it is all about getting the mix between the two opposing parts of the spectrum in training right, compulsion and affection –in the right ratios produces the best results– nice quote BTW.

I think
Oops now there is two lyn – and Lynn Cheffins, my last post was directed at Lynn

I Think :wink:
Hallo Jeff – got to love your work - the way you do your thing – please nothing personal, I was also just stirring…

The dogs sleeping during gun fire -Yes, I had a crew like that once, that slept on the job during night shift, then one night I stopped next to a low water bridge and started shooting, guess how long he had to swim to get out????
You Think, I think :wink:
Hay, what is happening here; Just too much generalization here in the last part, we are really getting people all confused now. I for one cannot see the relevance of a few of the last post made, just too much generalization, and blanket statements here. Please forgive me, but we need some alignment here, for the sake of new handlers, looking for good advice - useable advice. This is my gripe, and then we ask why so many dogs are messed up.

For something:

There is no magic training - even in dog training – so some of the claims made here will be making someone a billionaire if you can, can it…

My point:

Any and every person, and dog will at some stage or another hesitate – I.E. Even if the light at a traffic intersection is green, and the intersection is obscured, and busy, do you blindly just shoot through without – Hesitation?

Will a dog jump – if he cannot see what is below?
Will a dog go for a piece of meat on the ground and just eat it – no, way – them and we are much smarter - he first smells it?
Do you get the point… anything living has a tendency to hesitate – weighing up his / the options.

The other thing that concerns me is that everything is now all mixing up here, different stages of development and training is creeping in everywhere here that has no business or place in training pups.

Believe me– I can relate to everything you guys are saying, even the hardcore training methods – but hay: this thread is not about adult dogs, or teeny bobs it’s about pups. 0 – 3 months is considered a pup.

“if you can get a puppy to obey while it is under stress (measured according to the pups ability, not age, and progressing accordingly), you will end up with a stable and very obedient dog.”

Trust, can only come from bonding; and bonding is socialisation – you showing the dog the ropes, grooming, feeding, comforting, and caring. That is at the one side of the spectrum, the other side we have reward and punishment, discipline and disapproval. – it all comes from one source the handler – and it creates positive and negative stress.

As for balls, toys and food – these are babies for crying out load– do you take the dummy away and let him scream his head off – it is a comforter, a pal, just because you want a tuff mutt – come on.

Nothing in dog training just takes one or two tries; any behaviour consistently enforced becomes a habit. Consistently means for as long as it takes.

Stress is natural and essential, and handlers do stress the dog, just by hearing the chain coming, they will get excited – this is good stress, maybe JOSE, you should distinguish between the two.

Agility, tracking and defence are all natural in our working dogs, - I assure you it is not – take this for example, Tracking a specific sent on command is Tracking, the rest is just scenting, yes that is natural. Agility, is not, how many dogs do you know, that will just walk gladly over an A frame on the first go. Defence is not – very few dogs will defend – as we understand the term in boxing. I Think :wink:
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Ha ha – Jose – great post. I have to let you in on a little secret, I have been a little bit devious; forgive me.

Myself and the people at the Unit read this forum broken and your posts made for interesting conversation – and they wanted to see if you are all smoke and guns, or can this guy actually shoot straight as well…well you got the thumbs up.

As Jeff said, threads get to political and then die, and people play their cards close to their chest – so shaking things up, seems to help, now, we have a great picture – that speaks a thousand truths. Thanks.

“But I will be back” I think…
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