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Excellent! I especially like the first civil bite with the table, chairs and bottles being used to try and intimidate the dog.. We use the plastic bottles with rocks in them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Benta is 5 yrs(mother of Anne), Anne is 17 mo., Wibo 18 mo.
 

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selena, two questions:

1) what was that on dick's arm when teaching the stick attack? i know it's used to get the dog to target the right spot, but is it home made? did you buy it?

2) what was dick wearing under that sweater? a "concealed sleeve" or newspapers?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
@ Sas;

I don´t have enough time for Anne yet, she is young enough to wait a while since I´m very busy with Desi. They were at the same level so I had to choose..Desi is older, so she first and then Anne.
Another reason is that I don´t have a regular decoy who can work young dogs. Dick can work her but not in defense since he is also boss :wink:
She has been on the suit, but i have taken a step back of the time problem.

@ Tim

Decoy is a good friend of ours, an old clubmate who´d moved and was visiting. Decoy is a very experienced club & trial decoy.

The "kappen" are homemade from a very thick rubber floortile. On this material a dogs slips of/can´t bite properly into the suit so it will choose the right place on the suit. The material is soft, do not use hard plastic, this of possible toothfractures.

Under the sweater Dick wears a kevlar concealed sleeve.
like this one (ours is a bit smaller or Dick arms are a lot bigger)
 

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Selena van Leeuwen said:
The "kappen" are homemade from a very thick rubber floortile. On this material a dogs slips of/can´t bite properly into the suit so it will choose the right place on the suit. The material is soft, do not use hard plastic, this of possible toothfractures.
ok. i was working some of our county dogs last week and they have a couple of "hand biters" when on the suit. i had once heard of cutting up a plastic 5 gallon paint jug into strips and drilling holes on the sides and then lacing them together with string. i was thinking of doing that and then putting it on the ends of the arms on the suit to get the dogs to target higher. i hadn't thought of tooth problems. now i'm re-thinking using that and i might just have to go down to the hardware store to see if i can find some thick rubber tiles :wink:
 

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Andres Martin said:
Tim, PVC works well too.
yeah, that's what i was originally thinking (the plastic bucket is similar to PVC), but then selena threw out the whole teeth damage thing. have many times have you used PVC for this andres and have you ever seen tooth damage from it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have seen toothdamages on hard surface "kappen".We have a red one on the chest/back of harder plastic (similar to pvc)and it have some holes in it. Thats why we use visual color on the hard plastic, it is also on a place dog can´t have that much grip, it is a bit safer than on the lower arm :wink:

if the really are biting in the hand i would take a can to protect the hand :wink:
 

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NO, Tim...because targeting starts really close up, with the dog on a harness, the decoy seems to struggle to get away, the dog is slowly gaining ground, frustrated, I "place" him on target, and he finds the right place. There's no impact ever. Then it's a matter of increasing the distance.
 

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Andres Martin said:
NO, Tim...because targeting starts really close up, with the dog on a harness, the decoy seems to struggle to get away, the dog is slowly gaining ground, frustrated, I "place" him on target, and he finds the right place. There's no impact ever. Then it's a matter of increasing the distance.
then why bother with any device if you're placing the dog? i thought the whole point of putting an undesireable bite surface on was so that the dog could "self discover" which we all know is a much more powerful and longer lasting lesson than "do it this way because i make you or i tell you".
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Andres Martin said:
NO, Tim...because targeting starts really close up, with the dog on a harness, the decoy seems to struggle to get away, the dog is slowly gaining ground, frustrated, I "place" him on target, and he finds the right place. There's no impact ever. Then it's a matter of increasing the distance.
same way here in the learning stage, BUT when there is put pressure on the dog (voice, decoy going towards decoy, stick hit) some dogs get pissed and want to battle..what can result in mid chest or mid back bites (forget the right place)..thats why we use the "kappen" to learn to dog not ever to bite there and for decoy protection.

Wibo has learned the stickattack without the placing (before we bought him), so to learn him the right place we use the tile. With placing he fights the handler,he hasn´t learned to trust the handler, gets a lot better but putting up a fight gets in the way with learning.
 

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You can only go so far trying to "place" the dog. Also, the decoy is a factor. They don't always move exactly as you want. There's a bunch of stuff going on at the same time. Targeting is taught fairly close up. There's no need to teach the dog to target at a long distance from the start. If you start up close, and increase the distance, you'll have taught the dog where you want him to bite, and he'll have discovered that he can't be shifting the bite. On a full out, long distance bite, with a very fast dog, I would REALLY hesitate to use anything but suit...or meat.
 

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Tim Martens said:
ok. i was working some of our county dogs last week and they have a couple of "hand biters" when on the suit. quote]


How effective have you or others been in correcting hand-biting? Has re-targetting held up under pressure? Most hand-biting I've seen (my dog included :oops: ) seems to stem from a lack of confidence, and I worry that all my work will go right out the window if too much pressure is applied.
 

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Andres Martin said:
You can only go so far trying to "place" the dog. Also, the decoy is a factor. They don't always move exactly as you want. There's a bunch of stuff going on at the same time. Targeting is taught fairly close up. There's no need to teach the dog to target at a long distance from the start. If you start up close, and increase the distance, you'll have taught the dog where you want him to bite, and he'll have discovered that he can't be shifting the bite. On a full out, long distance bite, with a very fast dog, I would REALLY hesitate to use anything but suit...or meat.
ok. i get what you're saying. help guide with the initial contact, then if he re-grips down to an undesired target, he gets a mouth full of PVC.

simon, i have never worked with a dog with these problems until these two dogs last week. i don't get a chance to work with them a lot, but i'll pass along the advice and maybe i'll go out and make something that will help. i'll let you know how it goes...
 
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