By your definition of "average", these people should get a gold fish.Stacia Porter said:Yes, I have another oh-so-philosophical question.
This one came about after spending 2 hours on IM this morning helping a friend in Germany who has just acquired a GSD. "Thor" is about 14 months old, red sable, and comes from Poland! She emailed me and sent me a picture of him asking for help b/c he's "always getting in trouble."
Her description of this boy: goes after everything that moves, loves to play on playground equipment (ladders, slides, even swings), always has a ball in his mouth. Apparently he was purchased, IN POLAND, by a couple who are both in the military. They kept him crated 10+ hours a day adn said he was a menace (and were witnessed hitting and screaming at the dog). The first offered to sell him to the lady who now has him but she said no...then 2 months later they showed up at her door and begged her to take him. They can't find most of his papers, so I have no clue on his lines other than the breeder told them he's "police lines." He has had no OB, is obviously crate trained, and works well with her kids.
So I gave her tons of links to help her get this boy under control, suggested ob training and either SchH or agility, and that she switch his food (poor thing's on Purina One YUCK). And I told her that if she ever decides she doesn't want him, SEND HIM MY WAY lolol!
Now that I've written a book: just made me wonder if the "average" pet owner ought to have a shepherd (and I don't mean just a pet home, I mean the average Purina-feeding-no-obedience-training-want-a-pooch-who-will-sleep-all-day owners). It just seems to me that 80% of people are clueless when it comes to raising a GSD...and it's the dogs who are paying for that.
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Even the bat-eared, obviously AmBred lady I have in teh house goes after anything that moves and has tons of energy. Her favorite past-time is chewing on my hands and kicking Achilles's butt. She's nowhere near my German boy -- don't get me wrong -- but I just keep thinking about all of these "menace" sheps changing hands every day (even the AmBred ones) and it makes me sick. And this is not the first person with a REALLY nice dog who has contacted me for "help" with all of its problems...Mike Schoonbrood said:
Bob -- you're right, but not even goldfish should have to suffer the lives most "pet owners" resign them to
Hey, I'm one of these idiots! :lol: Finally, a topic I'm an expert on...sorry in advance for the wordiness
I guess this would be my advice to someone dumb and new like me...
.5. Telling an idiot they can't deal with it is fraught with consequences, so tread carefully, even though I totally agree with you.
1. if they are going to get a GSD, do a ton of research, and while what I'm about to say will probably cause some of you some grief...buy from established lines bred for size/temperment/health predictability (while realizing there's a lot of variation and this could mean jack). That's why I went with a very German line with a pedigree I could trace back because I needed that predictability. I would not buy an American line GSD, that's not a knock, I just think there is less risk there for a n00b like me. Having Troll and Fero lines is cool (to about five people in the US) but mostly I just like knowing the histories. Gives me more appreciation for the dog's capabilities and my responsibilities even though I know that may sound weird.
1.5 Let experienced dog people suggest a breeder for you that seems to mesh with your own research. Only buy from a breeder that must qualify you as an owner before you can buy their dog Only buy from a breeder who understands the differences between working dogs and family dogs.
2. Let the breeder pick the dog for you based on an objective understanding of your home environment and your ability to invest time and energy in the dog. Make them intrepret their selection according to Volhard selection criteria if they don't do the specific test. Don't get a "1" dog although my dog leans towards that. Buy from a breeder who will refuse to tell you particular pups from the litter because of their screened dispositions.
3. Talk with reasonable owners of like animals and ask them their opinion as to whether you can handle it.
4. Don't buy one if you don't want the house dirtier, your clothes messier, and every other neighbor really irritated that you now have a "mean dog" on their block. Plan on spending 5x more than what anyone tells you you'll spend on a dog.
5. Don't buy one if you think they (i.e., dogs from working lines) can train like dolphins with halters on.
6. Go to leerburg and other sites and read the horror stories about idiots like me who buy them and then tie them out the backyard for a few years. Read as much as you can about the training philosophies on that site and others, even if you are like me and don't agree with some of them. Cesar Milan is great but he does not teach people how to properly handle working dogs. There's some middle ground in between the two.
7. Ask yourself where you will get the 2-3 hours of "high quality and stimulating" interaction time a day to spend with the dog. For the next 15 years. Try to live that schedule for a few weeks (e.g., go for long walks, etc. but take that time AWAY from your current life).
7.5 Don't kid yourself about personal protection training if you are a n00b and you do not have a house where you could not keep a loaded gun on the kitchen floor. Read carefully all the comments from LEOs and MWD handlers about how few dogs can actually do this. Like, twice.
8. If you don't like asking for directions because of pride, don't get a working dog.
9. Be honest with your wife about shedding, it will save you trouble later. :lol:
And tell them their lives will change just as much as they did when they had a baby! Except dogs housebreak quicker.
Now for the more controversial stuff, I guess: first-time dog owners should not own GSDs. Beyond GSDs, I would not recommend a working Mal or Dutch or molosser/pit breed to anyone who did not spend >50% of their work and play lives in dog-related activities (kennel ownership, training, etc.) and had previously owned dominant dogs (successfully). I think there should be a breeder code of ethics keyed to these types of things that would restrict to whom breeders could sell animals. I think serious breeders should be given preferential tax incentives to pre-qualify potential dog owners. (I am not talking about BSL, I'm talking about incentizing, because good sales mean less harm to society down the road in many ways). I think there should be tax incentives for spaying/neutering.
Sorry for the length, this question causes me to think a lot. Some days more than others!!!
I guess this would be my advice to someone dumb and new like me...
.5. Telling an idiot they can't deal with it is fraught with consequences, so tread carefully, even though I totally agree with you.
1. if they are going to get a GSD, do a ton of research, and while what I'm about to say will probably cause some of you some grief...buy from established lines bred for size/temperment/health predictability (while realizing there's a lot of variation and this could mean jack). That's why I went with a very German line with a pedigree I could trace back because I needed that predictability. I would not buy an American line GSD, that's not a knock, I just think there is less risk there for a n00b like me. Having Troll and Fero lines is cool (to about five people in the US) but mostly I just like knowing the histories. Gives me more appreciation for the dog's capabilities and my responsibilities even though I know that may sound weird.
1.5 Let experienced dog people suggest a breeder for you that seems to mesh with your own research. Only buy from a breeder that must qualify you as an owner before you can buy their dog Only buy from a breeder who understands the differences between working dogs and family dogs.
2. Let the breeder pick the dog for you based on an objective understanding of your home environment and your ability to invest time and energy in the dog. Make them intrepret their selection according to Volhard selection criteria if they don't do the specific test. Don't get a "1" dog although my dog leans towards that. Buy from a breeder who will refuse to tell you particular pups from the litter because of their screened dispositions.
3. Talk with reasonable owners of like animals and ask them their opinion as to whether you can handle it.
4. Don't buy one if you don't want the house dirtier, your clothes messier, and every other neighbor really irritated that you now have a "mean dog" on their block. Plan on spending 5x more than what anyone tells you you'll spend on a dog.
5. Don't buy one if you think they (i.e., dogs from working lines) can train like dolphins with halters on.
6. Go to leerburg and other sites and read the horror stories about idiots like me who buy them and then tie them out the backyard for a few years. Read as much as you can about the training philosophies on that site and others, even if you are like me and don't agree with some of them. Cesar Milan is great but he does not teach people how to properly handle working dogs. There's some middle ground in between the two.
7. Ask yourself where you will get the 2-3 hours of "high quality and stimulating" interaction time a day to spend with the dog. For the next 15 years. Try to live that schedule for a few weeks (e.g., go for long walks, etc. but take that time AWAY from your current life).
7.5 Don't kid yourself about personal protection training if you are a n00b and you do not have a house where you could not keep a loaded gun on the kitchen floor. Read carefully all the comments from LEOs and MWD handlers about how few dogs can actually do this. Like, twice.
8. If you don't like asking for directions because of pride, don't get a working dog.
9. Be honest with your wife about shedding, it will save you trouble later. :lol:
And tell them their lives will change just as much as they did when they had a baby! Except dogs housebreak quicker.
Now for the more controversial stuff, I guess: first-time dog owners should not own GSDs. Beyond GSDs, I would not recommend a working Mal or Dutch or molosser/pit breed to anyone who did not spend >50% of their work and play lives in dog-related activities (kennel ownership, training, etc.) and had previously owned dominant dogs (successfully). I think there should be a breeder code of ethics keyed to these types of things that would restrict to whom breeders could sell animals. I think serious breeders should be given preferential tax incentives to pre-qualify potential dog owners. (I am not talking about BSL, I'm talking about incentizing, because good sales mean less harm to society down the road in many ways). I think there should be tax incentives for spaying/neutering.
Sorry for the length, this question causes me to think a lot. Some days more than others!!!
AMEN to that!!!!Woody Taylor said:
Here's the dog in question:
Pupper is 28.5 inches at the withers and 80 lbs (born 25 Feb 2005). BIG BOY. Too bad about his ear...I would call that neglect and possibly poor nutrition? I just love his color...
I didn't think about him being smacked in teh headSarah Hall said:
. Poor baby. His owner says he isn't for sale: and she sounds like she wants to be serious about getting him under control. Her hubby already enrolled him in training with a German SV trainer and they start next week . That made me very, very, very happy. She takes him on walks all of the time, lets him play on the plaground equipment, and she has 7 kids who play with him all of the time. He also has a chow brother! She's owned rotts in the past -- it's just that GSD's are a whole diff ball game and her hubby took the dog w/o talking to her. It's just that things she considered "problems" with him sure the heck aren't, and the things she doesnt' consider issues (showing signs of dog aggression) really are!Just got me thinking about the average pet owner and how that equals a lot of dogs in shelters (and not just gsd's: many large breed, high drive, energetic dogs get dumped).
A 9 mth old baby is enough work not to need another dog :wink: . BTW when do we get to see more pictures of Shane? His smile is just too adorable!!
Oh, DUH on me!Jerry Lyda said:
I didn't get Woody's post about the shelter at the curb until I read this reply! LOL!!You all keep the lactation/LLL thread and we'll keep the obscure references to getting kicked around by our spouses for our stupidity. :wink:Connie Sutherland said:Oh, DUH on me!Jerry Lyda said:
You all keep the lactation/LLL thread and we'll keep the obscure references to getting kicked around by our spouses for our stupidity. :wink:[/quote]Woody Taylor said:.....Oh, DUH on me!
That seems fair. :lol:
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