...you must be careful with this...because in sport, the dog making a full grip would be countering...and you don't want (usually) to reward that with more fight (initially). The way to teach effective countering in sport, is via "acting" submissive at the counter...or giving the sleeve for a carry. If a dog...in sport...is taught to counter properly, he should be moving INTO the bite.when the dog makes the grip full then pull tight again
How? What am I doing?Kristen...
You are teaching your dog to become chewy
We did notice him starting to do that at training last time. I'm not sure what Wayne's plans are to work on this issue.He's also moving towards the end of the sleeve as its being fed to him.
Thanks for the input, Mike. I was told to be a post until Jak bites, and then to stay behind him to keep the leash tight in a straight line from his head to his tail. That's why I am walking around. The leash isn't loose, but not as tight as I can pull it either. "Gentle tension" is what my TD calls it, "to let him know I'm there." I didn't realize I should be putting slack in the leash when Jak's grip isn't full, though. I'll have to remember that for next time. Wayne wants the decoy to work Jak up high, and let him counter up high, rather than on the ground. I don't know why.The handler should be a post, when the dog bites, you stand in one spot, let the decoy and the do the moving, I see you walking around following your dog with the leash. Also, when the dog is on the sleeve, pull the line tight as you can. ... if the dogs grip isn't full, let slack in the line and the decoy makes the grip full ON THE GROUND, fight the dog on the ground (4 legs on the ground I mean), when the dog makes the grip full then pull tight again,
I asked about whether we should start doing the sit and hold with him a couple of weekends ago, but my TD said no, we'd continue choking him off it as soon as it is slipped. Again, I don't know why.When the decoy slips the sleeve, run the dog, if the dog is thrashing, put your hand under the dogs chin and calm the dog petting over their head.
By letting him chew on the sleeve after he's "won" it. Once he has it...he should either carry it, hold it, or BE IN THE PROCESS OF LOSING IT.Kristen...
You are teaching your dog to become chewy...YOU ASK HOW:
Your decoy is feeding the sleeve at the wrong time...and in the wrong position. He should feed it by pulling the sleeve off with his "other" hand, so the end of the tip is never close to the dog's mouth, and only when the decoy needs to reward the dog FOR THE SPECIFIC goal you're after.He's also moving towards the end of the sleeve as its being fed to him.
If the handler's a post, the dog will learn to pull. If the dog is taught to move forward that's what the dog will do. The agitation process is a fluid one. You should not pull on the leash as tight as you can...unless you're pulling a dog off a BITE SUIT. You should keep firm tension on the leash in the beginning. Countering with the dog's four paws on the ground...in the beginning. Follow your dog carefully, as the decoy walks backwards, so the dog learns to move forward into the bite. Don't train a beginning dog with so much distraction around you. You'll miss important opportunities as a handler because you will be LESS ABLE TO BUILD FRUSTRATION.The handler should be a post, when the dog bites, you stand in one spot, let the decoy and the do the moving, I see you walking around following your dog with the leash. Also, when the dog is on the sleeve, pull the line tight as you can. ... if the dogs grip isn't full, let slack in the line and the decoy makes the grip full ON THE GROUND, fight the dog on the ground (4 legs on the ground I mean), when the dog makes the grip full then pull tight again,
Ok. How do I get it away from him quicker, then, to keep the chewing to a minimum? When it's slipped, I am supposed to immediately choke him off the sleeve, which I try to do (the helper wasn't supposed to slip it the way he did the first time, but he's a different helper than we usually have because our regular helper was delivering a dog to Neil Roden, so he didn't know how we had been working Jak), but as you can see, it takes a minute before he lets go, and it's during that time that he's chewing and whining and holding it with his paws, etc. Is there another way I can get him off of it quicker?Andres Martin said:
You're absolutely right that in the first video, everything sucked. This helper wasn't our usual helper, so he didn't know that we weren't giving Jak the sleeve, and so he slipped it as soon as Jak bit, and I wasn't ready for it because that's not what we've been doing. So, yeah, that was just bad all around. I totally get what you're saying about that performance. :lol:Andres Martin said:In the first video, Kristen, as soon as the decoy feeds the sleeve, do a carry or hang the dog...immediately. What happened wrong there was that you let the dog take the sleeve to the ground, rebite badly on the ground, and then you pulled him up and started choking him off. Ideally, as soon as the decoy feeds the sleeve, do a carry. Initially, have the decoy run with the dog, holding the sleeve so there is some tension...or have the sleeve attached to a leash. Run the dog, making sure he does not chew. As soon as he starts chewing, hang him up. Regrettably, most decoys are fat, lazy and slow. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yay! I actually did something right! :mrgreen: It's hard, because I'm not actually the one in charge of what's being done. The TD is standing next to me giving instructions to me and the helper, and basically I'm just along for the ride and trying to learn as we go just from listening and observing. I don't know the reasons behind many of the things he does, and he's not that great at explaining them. He's the type that knows what he's doing, and why he's doing it, and that's all that matters. He's not so great at explaining the why's, and I'm sort of timid about asking because I don't want him to get frustrated with me.In the second video, YOU handled well. The decoy gave the sleeve as a reward for a shi++ie rebite. In that situation (bad bite on a sleeve), hang the dog off the sleeve while it's on the decoy. Have the decoy look away, and have your dog's four paws on the ground if necessary. Reward with the sleeve, only the bites YOU WANT TO SEE the dog give!
I really try hard to do this I KNOW what you just told me is what I need to be doing, but I struggle with it. I have for several months - right Jerry?! :lol: It's getting especially harder as Jak gets older and stronger. I usually wear gloves, and I forgot them, so I was struggling with the leash, too.Some additional tips: You need to give your dog a bit more space, and place your feet sideways so you have better stability. Don't lean forward, as you will just get pulled along. Stand sideways, bend your knees some, move without stomping behind your dog.
it almost HURTS for me to see a good dog like yours, loosing intensity due to insufficient frustration buildup, to having someone idly standing by chatting to you about what to do, to having another dog immediately up close. That dog should be pulling you off your feet, Kristen. His intensity for a bite should leave your hands begging for soothing relief. If it's prey you're after, your dog should be chasing the heck out of the decoy.
Kristen...GET THE INTENSITY LEVEL UP...UP...UP!!!!!
Our regular helper suggested this a few sessions ago, but the TD still said no, we'll just keep choking him off. NO idea why.attaching a leash to the sleeve and having the decoy run with the dog helps alot, especially with chewing or dogs who don't naturally carry their prey.