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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, so I've been working on Jak's long downs in the house in the hopes that I can try letting the cats upstairs with him in the house again without him scaring them wanting to play. So far he's up to 1 hour+ long downs with me 10 feet or less from him. The goal is to get him to where I can leave the room and he'll stay where he is before I try it with the cats. Lastnight he did very well even when we had two visitors. He whined and cried and wanted to get up (and tried to twice), but he did much better than I expected!

I've been using the remote collar, and correcting him with it at a low level for trying to stand up before I release him, but what am I supposed to do if he tries to crawl?! I don't correct him if he changes which hip he's laying on, since he is having to lay there for a long time; but I was unsure of exactly how to correct the crawling. Do I just correct with the remote collar, or should I tell him phooey first? Then there's putting him back on the pillow he's supposed to be staying on. Do I hold the button down until he's back on the pillow, as I drag him over to it, or is there something else I should do? He's crawling in order to get attention, and he's getting it when I go to put him back where he's supposed to be, even though it's negative attention.

I'm just a little stumped.
 

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Kristen, I see no reason to keep any dog in a down for 1 hour. Adding distractions is one thing but the time is way to extream. IMHO!
Hopefully Lou Castle, or someone else with more e-collar expierience, can offer you advice on the correct collar work.
 

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Here's my reply from the other forum where I answered this. I'm putting it here in case anyone else was wondering what's been suggested...
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OK, well I'm not sure exactly why it's necessary to do 1+ hour long downs, but whatever.

Here's the deal, you said down, that means stay laying down in the spot that I put you. If he moves from the spot (gets up, crawls, slides around, starts rolling over, etc) then he is not doing what he was told to do. Shifting for comfort is OK as long as it's OK with you (bad for those that want all points in the long down exercises in competition).

If you want to work on him maintaining position when you leave the room, then do that. There is no need for him to stay under command in a down for over an hour in order to be able to do that. Put him in a down, walk out of the room, if he moves then correct him or whatever and put him back in the same spot. It's easiest to do if you can see him from the other room, but he can't see you.
 

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I would just keep putting the dog back in the position you want him in.Over time hell stay there longer.

Personally I dont get upset if the dog moves after being there a really long time.Just calmly put him back in his place.I wouldnt punish him for breaking an hour long down stay and I use a prong instead of an ecollar.JMO

Greg
 

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I agree with the other posts. I would not use the electric on him at this time. He's just learning. If you know he knows what he is supposed to do then that may deserve this type correction. Even then I wouldn't use electric for this command. It makes this place a bad place.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
When I put him in a down if he's going to be there for a while, I give him something to keep him occupied, like a chew hoof or filled kong. The reason for doing this is not only because of the cats, but also because he tends to not settle in the house and I want him to understand that when he's in the house it's calm time.


I have always been told to work on time first, and then distance. I figured if he can do an hour long down-stay he should be able to handle the everyday situations where I would need him to be in a down, without him fidgeting or deciding "Ok I've been here long enough," and getting up on his own. Mike R., thanks for your suggestion - I was just afraid to rush the distance thing, but I guess he's probably ready for it now. When he 'loses' something he has on the pillow if it rolls off, he doesn't get up to go get it, but waits for me to give it back to him.


My main question was how to correct when he breaks and moves out of position. Should I be telling him phooey phooey phooey until I drag him back onto the spot and tell him to platz again? Should I be jerking him back towards the spot instead of just pulling him? Should I be saying nothing and just dragging/jerking him back to the spot and giving the command again? And, with any of the above (and I realize not everyone can advise on this), should I be holding the continuous button down until I get him back into position to platz again, or should I just nick him when he breaks and then go to put him back? Should I be reissuing the command once we're back to the spot or just force him back down with his collar?


I don't think we'll have a problem with the long down for competition, because that is a totally different training scenario. Here, all I'm requiring him to do is stay laying down on his pillowbed until he's released. He's free to chew on whatever is on the pillowbed for him to chew on, or readjust if he becomes uncomfortable (as long as he doesn't stand up). The long down for competition will be trained outside the house, most likely with a backtie of some sort, and not with chew toys or his bed.

Thanks again!
 

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Assuming I have already laid the foundation for a communicational bond,here is what I would do.

I would have the dog on a long leash with a prong.Give the command you use to tell the dog where you want him like "place" then "good place" as soon as he complies.
Then give the "stay" command.After a few seconds I would tell him "good stay" and walk off or go about my business.If he moves then pick up the leash and tell him "phooee" then give a correction and put him back exactly where he was.Then again give the "stay" command and walk off.
This applies no matter how long or how far away.When I say correction I dont mean tear his head off,just enough pop to let him know thats not what you want.
If you were out of the room and find he is wandering just correct him verbally then with the leash and put him back.

Also if he stayed a good long while I would again say "good Stay" and then a release command like "free".

There are other ways but you did ask. :wink:

Greg
 

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Kristen Cabe said:
I have always been told to work on time first, and then distance. I figured if he can do an hour long down-stay he should be able to handle the everyday situations where I would need him to be in a down, without him fidgeting or deciding
Time is time, distractions are distractions, absense of handler is absense of handler.

--Teach the exercise first
--extend the time required (NOT to an absurd length of time like 1+ hours)
--toss in a distraction until the dog performs even with distractions
--leave the room and the dog remains in the commanded position
--throw some distractions when you're not around

That's the general progression of things in common sense order. The amount of time that a dog will hold the down has no bearing on how it will do when distractions are presented or when the handler is absent. You're doing the time exercise to ensure that the dog understands the exercise and will hold the position until released, not as a preparation for distraction or absense.
 
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