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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been working the beginning stages of the send away for the last couple of months, in different locations, using different end barriers (ie., woodline, fence line). What I've been doing is placing her kong at the end barrier - started at about 15 ft away and slowly moved further back each time. I use the end barriers, to "pattern" her to always go full speed to the end of the field (the end marked by taller grass, fence, woodline)- in whichever direction I point - and there she will find the reward. I don't place the reward on any post or clip it to anything - as I've seen to many dogs look for the reward to be on the post etc before taking off - and already knew that she would be one of these dogs. She has her faults - but she's one of those dogs that you can actually see thinking - which keeps me on my toes.

This morning I went to a field that I have used before and tested her to see if she would go out when given the command - without seeing me place the reward at the end barrier. She heeled with me for about 12 paces and then when I put my arm out and gave her the command, she took off about 20ft and then turned around and looked at me and stopped. I guess I created another "pattern" for her - she expects to see me place the reward - else in her mind it is not out there.

I was thinking that I would/or someone else would just continue placing the reward, without her seeing me/them do it, and just verbally direct her to continue towards it and if I have to walk with her until she understands - if I give the command and send her - the reward WILL be there. Anyone have any other suggestions? (other then switching sports :twisted: )
 

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When the dog stopped and looked at you she was looking for direction.Encourage to her to go on until she finds the reward.Gradually she will not need the extra encouragement.

On a side note,I believe the send away taught like this is not a send away excersise but a retrieval excersise.If I were going to teach a send away I would teach it without a reward first and then use the reward to build speed.That way the dog is doing the send away and the reward is just extra.JMO
 

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The way I train for this and I have pretty good result is that I heel my dog to where he supposed to run to and then do a about turn, as he turn I will drop his reward behind us, he should never know that I drop it there, I will heel back about 10 paces and do an about turn and point to where the reward is and said "there" if he looks at exactly where I point then I will mark it by saying "good", if he looks around somewhere else then I will say no, I will keep saying no until he looks in the right direction before I mark it, then I will send him, as he gets close to the reward I will down him or sit or stand before I release him for the reward, increase the distance as you go.
If you show the dog where you drop the reward, he will never learn the exercise because he in his mind he saw you drop it there and he goes there, on the trial day he will not see you drop the reward, but if you can teach him to trust you to go whereever you sent him and the reward will always be there then it is much more reliable and clearer to him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Now you got me curious Greg - how do you teach the send away? I understand where you are comming from about it being more of a retrieve exercise the way I am teaching it right now - but eventually she will be running full out towards the end barrier (if I teach this right) and be commanded to down. The reward will come from me then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Mike and Khoi. Guess I need to back-up - makes sense the way you teach it Khoi. I'm not going to let her see me place it anymore, that's a definite.

Khoi, How often do you do this before putting the down command in the exercise?
 

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Lacey Vessell said:
Now you got me curious Greg - how do you teach the send away? I understand where you are comming from about it being more of a retrieve exercise the way I am teaching it right now - but eventually she will be running full out towards the end barrier (if I teach this right) and be commanded to down. The reward will come from me then.
I just point ahead and say voraus.. :lol: Not trying to be smart.. :oops: ,I work on communication from day one so the dog is usually already taking alot of direction by the time I ask them to "go ahead" for the first time.I dont need speed though.I just expect the dog to go where I tell them.So Ill direct the dog ahead and then left or right then ahead again.If I wanted a ton of speed then I would probably need to use a reward as soon as the dog figured out what I expected from the send away command.I dont go for flash and youll probably want to go with someone elses opinion but you did ask for any ideas..LOL.I have had dogs that went out fast from the start and they never got a reward.Of course everyone knows I beat them with a hose to get them to comply... :p :p .
This will also produce speed in the send away.. :eek: .
 

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I do use the drop where the dog can see me doing it. It doesn't take long before you can wean off that visual and the dog will "know" that something is there.
The key is to add distance AWAY from the drop and not move the drop further away from the dog.
All of this is a learning phase and the dog will eventually learn to run out as you direct.
Lots of ways to do this!
 

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Lacey Vessell said:
Thanks Mike and Khoi. Guess I need to back-up - makes sense the way you teach it Khoi. I'm not going to let her see me place it anymore, that's a definite.

Khoi, How often do you do this before putting the down command in the exercise?
Well I already have very solid down sit and stand in motion so I did it right away when I trained the send away so that he will down fast, as soon as he is down I release him for him to pick up the reward, I do about 1 out of 10 send away then I make him down, the rest of the time when he get close to the reward I just release him from the exercise and let him pick up the reward, I also don't make him down every time, I use sit and stand also, just to teach him that he must focus and listen for my command instead of anticipate down, some people don't think that it's a good idea to do that but I don't like pattern trained, that just not teaching the dog the excersice but only the pattern, I want to teach the dog to understand what I want and listen for command.
 

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My prefered method do to simplicity and drive.

http://www.k-9bsd.com/videos/Send+Out.wmv

The send out also known as the “voraus” or “go out”, is easily trained with the K-9BSD by taking advantage of the dogs ability to see motion far easier than motionless objects. Further, even if the dog is not looking or headed in correct direction, the audible click generated by device cues dog in correct direction to see prey item in motion. These two facts alone remove the bulk of training required to get the dog headed down the field in the desired direction. Another plus is ability to use prey drive as it generates some real speed in the send out. It also does a good job of generating more speed on dogs that already know the send out but do it half heartedly.

Dan Reiter
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks everyone for your help. Very nice video clip Dan, thanks for sharing that with me. Is there a remote device for the K-9BSD? - it might also be practical to use to teach the blind search, that is if there is a way to control the force by which the reward is ejected from it.

I'm heading out to try some of these methods right now.........thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Okay I tried a couple of the suggestions:

I started with heeling her and right after about turn tried dropping the reward (kong). She heard it drop, so it kinda defeated the purpose.

I then put her up - where she could not see me. Placed 3 kongs at end barriers in 3 different directions/locations on the field. Got her out, did some heeling for awhile and then gave her the command to go out. Once again she hesitated, so I gave her the command again at the same time walking towards the reward verbally encouraging her. She continued on and found the reward. The next time I sent her, in a different direction, she did not hesitate and hauled butt towards the end of the field and her reward. I put her up after the third time - which went just as well. Figure best to put her up on a good note and not push things, will try it again tonight at club training. I can't help but think this was just to easy of a fix and she "got it" faster then I thought she would- it has to get mucked up some way. :)
 

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I try and stay at the same place and go the same direction until the dog can go at least 150 meters or more. I then teach it in the other direction, then if I went north and south first, I go east and west.

Then I try faking the dog out, and things like that. Then I try it on another field.

There are also really good ideas online from the Lab people that do field trials. They are the masters of the send out, and I would find them first.



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Hi Guys & Gals, Just want to say I have always done it as Bob says (but thats not with many dogs). Move the dog farther back, not the marker. Then sometimes there is a reward, sometimes not.
 

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it might also be practical to use to teach the blind searchLacey Vessell
Yes I use for blind search also which is realy just a multiple directional send.
http://www.k-9bsd.com/videos/Blind+Search+Training.wmv

Field trial people as is well known have a number of remote bumper devices to use during training. But are married to the noise of gun fire.

And yes Field Trial directional sends versus Schutzhund send out is like comparing College Graduate to a First Grader.
(no offence intended but it is obvious once you see both)

Dan
 
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