[Liz Monty]

my puppy and I were walking in a park today. An off leash Boxer charged down the path at us and I picked up the pup in a flash. The boxer kept climbing up me to smell my puppy. Owner finally caught up and apologized. My puppy was quiet when in my arms. The owner of Boxer said he was very friendly, but agreed that he would have trample her to play rough. I asked if he was completely trustworthy if I bent down and let my puppy meet him while still holding her. She said of course. She was right. I let my pup meet nose to nose and then my pup growled at him after a few seconds so I stood back up. I thought this is a bad greeting for the puppy and left and drove to the off leash park and stayed outside of the fence. I wanted her to see that not all dogs charged and frightened her. As we walked along the fence she chose some dogs who were boisterous and ran to the fence and she snarled and growled at them. When I explained that she had just had a bad first impression at the park earlier one man said his old, gentle golden lab would never approach her aggressively or even bother to smell her. So we took my pup and his older dog to a small sectioned area and I let her meet this dog. My puppy was back to normal and greeted the gentle dog friendly. She showed no signs of growling. She had pleasure and was relaxed again. So I took her, thanked the man and we left on a good note.
I have known that often these off leash parks are not too good for some dogs for many health and aggression and injury reasons. Plus it can develop your dog's into ignoring you the owner because they would rather play with other dogs. But I went there to fix a problem that had happed beyond my control. At least we left with a good note.
Any advice on how to help my puppy not be aggressive to other dogs who may in the future come around off leash, or to not be aggressive to dogs she is supposed to be friends with. I have heard many thoughts on it before, but I want to hear what the usual working dog people have to say.

 

[Connie Sutherland]

I don't go to public dog parks. JMO. I have zero confidence in the other person's training. :wink:

Do you have stable dogs among your friends and relatives? Dogs you know well?

 

[Bob Scott]

Your pup needs to have it's final shots before you start exposing it to all those other dogs. Usually 16 weeks old for the final puppy shots. Even after that, in general, most working dog owners don't allow their dogs to play with one another. What happens is a new pup will bond with another dog rather then to it's human if you give it to much time with other dogs. Even my own dogs don't play with any new pup. I want the pup on me.
The dog can be socialized and learn to ignore other dogs without direct contact.

 

[Bob Scott]

I don't go to public dog parks. JMO. I have zero confidence in the other person's training. :wink:

Do you have stable dogs among your friends and relatives? Dogs you know well?

Dog park people, in general, have their head where the sun don't shine when it comes to common sense. JMHO!

 

[Connie Sutherland]

Yes, I'm afraid that's true.

The owner of another working dog forum calls dog parks well-intentioned but a very bad idea, and I have to agree with him.

My dogs do know a couple of dogs among my friends and at our club, and that it more than enough for me......... working dog or not.

"Socialized," for me, means going lots of places and seeing lots of stuff, including plenty of dogs, who my dogs are supposed to politely ignore.

I don't know much about puppies, but friends at our club don't let them be with strange dogs until their puppy shots are done. They do take them all over to places, though, where there are no unvaccinated dogs.

I think I have heard them say that despite the small risk of contracting something between 12 and 16 weeks, they want them socialized in that time period. (They too consider "socialized" to mean out and about, but not hanging with strange dogs.)

 

[Liz Monty]

Connie, I have a couple of people with trust worthy dogs, but I was concerned about her initial reaction when we where in the woods at the park to that Boxer that was off leash.
Everything you guys said about the off leash parks I have heard too, from SOME normal pet owners, family dogs. The only reason I took her to the off leash park and kept her on the outside of the fence was to hope she would meet some friendly dogs through the fence and change her reaction to the earlier issue that happened in the woods. In the woods I had my puppy on leash when the Boxer ran up.
I know it is a risk to take her out before all her shots, but I thought the 2nd booster she had would prevent anything but rabies. Bob, Can they really catch distemper and parvo after only thier second shots??
If I teach her to just stay with me and not let her play with other dogs, how do I avoid a bad fight if some dog runs up to her off leash. That is what I am afraid of happening. She already showed aggression to that Boxer.
The other dogs I had where lucky enough to play with other working dogs very often. But we would always practice calling them back to obedience.

 

[Dave Clarkson]

I have a 4 1/2 month old working puppy. I was told not to let the pup meet nose to nose. If you want to get her used to other dogs just walk her with other dogs and keep her out of reach. Dont let them meet and dont let them psture. I was told not to let her play with other dogs. If she growls, take her by the scruff of the neck and tell her "no", the way its mother may correct it. I realize its mother could not say "no"

I do let her play with my older show line because it is just waay to hard to keep them separated. I am with them 24/7 so it has not been much of an issue. I separate them thoughout the day so I can spend time with each individually.

My girl thiks she is the toughest think on the planet. She gets out of the car barking just to let everyone know she is there.

I did have to play football with a doberman's heard two weeks ago. The dobi was off leash when my wife and I turned the corner. My wife had the older girl and put her on the other side of her when it approached our dog. Then the dobi eyed the pup as the owner tryed to convince the dobi to return to him. It came from behind me to "look" at the pup so I pulled the pup around to my front and the dobi hovered came around a little faster with more purpose so I gave it a nice size 11 up under the chin. That backed the ole boy right off. The owner said he was sorry and took his dog.

Some my not agree with kicking the dog but I make enough mistakes on my own raising the pup I dont need someone elses dog screwing her up.

 

[Greg Long]

I have no problem kicking a dog like that.If you give the dog or the owner a chance to call the dog off or maintain some sort of control and the dog keeps coming....all is fair. 8)

One thing I would like to add,the reaction many of you are seeing in your dog during these and other situations does not begin with the dog or pup.It starts within the handler and the dog is just picking up on it and reacting.When a dog runs up to you like that you probably stop and tense up and maybe your breathing stops or changes.Then you may pick up or grab your pup.Your pup or dog is totally aware of these changes.You are coming under a small bit of stress and your actions are building suspicion in your dog.At some point in this scenario,the pup will react and thats when you get a bark or a growl.To change or stop this cycle,the handler must change the way they react to stressful situations.Then you will see improvement in the dog.JMO 8)

 

[Kristen Cabe]

I'm surprised more people didn't catch on to the fact that you put your puppy nose-to-nose with an unfamiliar dog. You should NEVER do that. When dogs go nose-to-nose, it's a challenge. You should have turned her around and let the boxer sniff her butt, and then let her sniff the boxer's butt. She growled at the boxer because you put her in the position to.

IF a puppy has had its shots at 9, 12, and 16 weeks of age, they are fully immune at 18 weeks. Until that time, I would not take the puppy out and let it walk where other dogs may have been, because the potential for contracting diseases like distemper and parvo are still there.

I agree with everyone else in that socialization does not have to mean meeting and interacting with strange dogs. You don't want her thinking that she can run up and play with every dog she sees, like most dog park dogs, do, right?

 

[Liz Monty]

thanks everyone, good advice.
Kristen, your advice was great, but I have to admit that I am laughing to myself picturing putting Bella's nose to that Boxer's Butt :lol: :lol:
But you are right, I should have known better. I was doing the stupid "mommy" attitude thing, hoping Bella would meet nose to nose and like the dog. Wrong, it equals giving two two year old's a toy in the middle and see who takes it first

 

[Kristen Cabe]

Kristen, your advice was great, but I have to admit that I am laughing to myself picturing putting Bella's nose to that Boxer's Butt

I know what you mean, but look at it this way; a boxer's butt can't bite her head off. :lol: :lol:

 

[Bob Scott]

Kristen, your advice was great, but I have to admit that I am laughing to myself picturing putting Bella's nose to that Boxer's Butt

I know what you mean, but look at it this way; a boxer's butt can't bite her head off. :lol: :lol:

Do you have ANY idea how dangerous that end of a boxer is?
The breed is noted for being deadly in a small room.

 

[Kristen Cabe]

I KNEW that was coming! LOLOL

 

[Liz Monty]

:lol: =D> :lol: =D>

 

[Liz Monty]

My old friend's Malinois used to run up to bush after bush and ram his but into them to do his business, - I hear that''s a Mal thing, lol
But this same dog would clear the room or vehicle in a flash. and after he gassed us out, he would put on that malinois smile and pant like he just had a good one. :lol: :lol: :lol: