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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Emma is 9 wks old. Working on sit, down and stand.

I lure her forward on sit and push into her on down. The goal being for her to keep her front feet planted and move her hind end into the position. I like hind end awareness.

Even though I am consistent, she is stepping back on the down and forward on the down. Ooo. Frustrating. She has no idea. I want to get her off the lures ASAP, but how can I until she figures this out?
 

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Emma is 9 wks old. Working on sit, down and stand.

I lure her forward on sit and push into her on down. The goal being for her to keep her front feet planted and move her hind end into the position. I like hind end awareness.

Even though I am consistent, she is stepping back on the down and forward on the down. Ooo. Frustrating. She has no idea. I want to get her off the lures ASAP, but how can I until she figures this out?
Are you using markers? If yes, did you work on teaching what the marker ment or are you just incorporating it in the training as you go?
At 9wks I wouldn't be to concerned about weaning off the lures untile she truely understands the marker.
Trooper's intro to his marker ("yes") is for eye contact.
As I'm now holding the treat out to my side and still getting eye contact, I'll start putting the treat/lure in my pocket.
I don't try to imprint more then one exercise,sit, down, whatever, until I think the marker is truely understood. From there it's much easier to remove the lure/treat/body language.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Just incorporating markers into training. And training lots of things all at once so she learns that she can do lots of stuff to get a treat. I don't want her to default in a sit position (but she already is doing that).

She offers eye contact, sit, down, stand, back (new one) and is close to offering zig and zag (for weaving between the legs). She seems to know "go figure it out" - a cue for the dog to start offering behaviors.

I'm not convinced she knows the marker. She doesn't necessarily repeat the same behavior in a row to try to earn a treat. This may be because I'm marking so many behaviors initially.

I don't intend to continue marking so many at once. I'm just starting to narrow it down now. I'm working on positions in separate sessions form the other stuff, for example.

Perhaps I should keep the lures for positions and mark continue to mark the positions. And stick to free shaping for the fun stuff.

I will have to get some video taken in the next week or so. I have a sinking feeling I'm not placing the reward well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
OK. Well, I took pup out again. (Yeah, I do most my training a night when the baby is asleep.)

She definitely knows sit and down. She refuses on the down (and recall) towards the end of a session. She does a little puppy spin hop and runs off. For refusing to come when called, I walk her down and she stops, then I call her to me and treat. For refuseing to donw, I hooked my finger in her collar and held her collar to the floor. When she downed after a pup tantrum, I gave a jackpot and continuous treats as ling as she stayed down. I felt it was too much for a pup, but it improved her compliance and she accepted the treats (enthusiastically) and she was not at all shy. So it passes my tests of "was the correction too much?."

Anyhow the session was just positions, release and recall. She didn't off other behaviors and I didn't encourage her too.

Sit to stand is OK. Stand to sit is good. Stand and sit to down are sloppy and yucky with refusal, pawing at me, spastic puppyness, etc. Down to sit is OK. Down to stand is good.

I don't like holding her collar down. A gentle sideways push on the shoulders and she rolls on her back (she is so round right now she can't lay on her side.)
Ideas?
 

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I train with no corrections whatever but If I did, it would only be for something the dog was completely sure of. At 9 wk, your pup is in the learning phase.
Lighten up and enjoy the puppy! Short, quick training.
 

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anne-check out the thread "down/platz" (2 below this one)--kadi t. has a cool method of training the down with "hind-end awareness". might give you some options :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Today there was no refusal on the down. Not sure what the tantrum was about yesterday but it appears to have passed.

I'll check the other thread. Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I think this is fixed now.

I am no longer marking the sit when she backs up and she is getting it. Not sure what the "down" problem was that day, but no problems since. She's offering it frequently.
 

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I think this is fixed now.

I am no longer marking the sit when she backs up and she is getting it. Not sure what the "down" problem was that day, but no problems since. She's offering it frequently.
Quote; "She's offering it frequently".
The question here is, Are you asking her for a down, or is she soliciting treats by spontanious offering? If that's the case, she's training you. Don't reward unless YOU ask/give a command.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm allowing both now. I sorta divide training into 5 things:

1. Commands on cue - no reward if she offers the wrong thing
2. Offer behaviors - anything goes. I use a cue to let her know to offer stuff. The goal is to get her to offer new behaviors - not just ones that are previously trained.
3. Put yesterday's shaped behavior on cue
4. Shape 1 new behavior - not on cue
5. Review comands on cue

So I'm either asking for behaviors on cue or letting her figure it out by offering a behavior. But I don't do both at the same time. I think it is working :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I remembered something out of a book while training today! To teach a pup to plant it's feet (for positions out of motion), train at the top of stairs. I'm going to do more trianing on the positions. She's really quite good, but moving her front feet about and inch. I want planted and I'm not going to risk marking approximation for too long.

The first session today was just getting my pup comfy at the top of stairs. (When I put my head at her level and looked down, it did look pretty scary!) She's walking up to the edge and leaning out to get a treat. Perfect. I hope to start re-training the positions in the next couple days.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yup. Top of the stairs works beautifully. A long ways to go, but she figured out the mecahnics of sitting from a stand without moving her front legs.
 

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As small as she is right now you could work her on a grooming table, upside down trash can, anything small enough to keep her from moving around. No, this is NOT table training. :) ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
C'mon now. She has doubled in size. She weighs 11lb now! :lol:

I got a couple little videos of her drive building and puppy training last week and uploaded them on youtube. And of course, they aren't playing - I don't know what is wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Emma taught me another way to get the positions without her moving her front feet.

I was trying to teach her to touch her nose to a 4" diameter plastic pad on the floor. But it was too big so she was stepping on it, leading to the "superstition" that i was clicking for foot touch.

Then she started offering positions on the pad. Now, away from the top of the staris, her positions are sloppy and I don't train, mark or reward them. But she was planting her front feet on the pad and offering positions. I marked and rewarded them.

So one more way to train a put to plant its front feet.
 
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