Protection Sport Seminars

I would audit just about any seminar. I would only take a working spot if my dog would be worked the way I normally work.

jamie lind said:

I would audit just about any seminar. I would only take a working spot if my dog would be worked the way I normally work.

Click to expand...

I'm kinda the same way, especially a young dog in training. For an audit spot, I'm sorta in the "depends on the costs" realm.

T

I'm with Jamie in that I'll audit just about anything depending on price, location, etc. How much I will pay, how far I will got, etc depends on the accomplishments of the presenter and what I can find out about them as a seminar giver. IE it doesn't matter how great their accomplishments are if they can't explain how to get out of a room with only 1 door and no windows. On the flip side I have known people who may not have a huge resume of high level accomplishments themselves, but they have coached many teams to those levels and they know how to present the information in a manner that is easy to follow.

I don't get the poll question. You use all the tools in behaviour modification. Not just one.
I would only attend a seminar IF I knew that presenter can explain and prove his techniques in a clear, scientific manor. Obviously, he has to prove this on the COMPETITION field, as well. Much of training is about subtleties but the concepts must be clear because you cannot take away everything in a seminar.

Also, he must prove that he has taken others in his team to high level with his system. To me, this is the most important point. Because you can say all the nice things you want. The proof is in tangible results. IMO.

jamie lind said:

I would audit just about any seminar. I would only take a working spot if my dog would be worked the way I normally work.

Click to expand...

I'd agree ... but when I was doing something with my young male that wasn't working in my normal work or we had done something to create a problem, I needed help. So I needed something outside of what myself and the people who I was working with could offer.

So I attended a Shade Whitesel seminar at Posidogs in Columbus this past December. As I liked some of her ideas that I had read online here on the WDF, they meshed with the issues I was having. So I was willing to take a look at what she thought could help my dog.

It was a far drive 9 hours or so, I could've audited to save some cash but I was glad that I brought my dog and worked the 2 days with Shade we made a lot of progress as some of the ideas and techniques changed the way I looked for control from my male.

It was money and time well spent.

Geoff Empey said:

I'd agree ... but when I was doing something with my young male that wasn't working in my normal work or we had done something to create a problem, I needed help. So I needed something outside of what myself and the people who I was working with could offer.

So I attended a Shade Whitesel seminar at Posidogs in Columbus this past December. As I liked some of her ideas that I had read online here on the WDF, they meshed with the issues I was having. So I was willing to take a look at what she thought could help my dog.

It was a far drive 9 hours or so, I could've audited to save some cash but I was glad that I brought my dog and worked the 2 days with Shade we made a lot of progress as some of the ideas and techniques changed the way I looked for control from my male.

It was money and time well spent.

Click to expand...

Were you able to use an ecollar or a prong. Or I should say if you wanted to could you?

I think Geoff has a point for the exception to the rule--when something isn't working and its time to think outside the usual box. The question came from a discussion here and what I've seen at protection sport seminars I've been too. When you say "so and so" is a marker trainer, out pops the question of "is he positive only?" Regardless, I can watch it and determine where it fits in my training regardless of what quadrant. I like people that can read dogs so I'm not that concerned with the trial/title resume. I also enjoyed Shade's presentation and the bonus was to see all of it in the dog that she brought along.

T

sure if I was competing in sport and had money for this type of thing. no problemo...especailly with a puppy.

Peter Cho said:

I don't get the poll question. You use all the tools in behaviour modification. Not just one.
I would only attend a seminar IF I knew that presenter can explain and prove his techniques in a clear, scientific manor. Obviously, he has to prove this on the COMPETITION field, as well. Much of training is about subtleties but the concepts must be clear because you cannot take away everything in a seminar.

Also, he must prove that he has taken others in his team to high level with his system. To me, this is the most important point. Because you can say all the nice things you want. The proof is in tangible results. IMO.

Click to expand...

Well said and this is important to me as well.

but that is an issue.

A "system" can't really be learned in this format.

some techniques sure..

jamie lind said:

Were you able to use an ecollar or a prong. Or I should say if you wanted to could you?

Click to expand...

It was the facilities policy to not allow those tools. For me it didn't matter as my problems were caused by those tools in the first place. As what was happening to me and my dog was I was hardening my dog to corrections, that was the issue in the first place. So it didn't matter to me whether the facility approved or not the use of those tools. It wasn't what I went there for any ways. YMMV.

Like I said in my earlier post ..

Geoff Empey said:

I was glad that I brought my dog and worked the 2 days with Shade we made a lot of progress as some of the ideas and techniques changed the way I looked for control from my male.

It was money and time well spent.

Click to expand...

I still agree with that statement.

btw I still use correction tools but I approach things in a different way and in my Ringsport club where I am the training director, every one uses the info I learned that weekend. It works for Presas, Cane Corsos, GSDs, Malinois, Dutches. Money and time well spent indeed! :-D

For me it is about what was learned and the info presented, not about the facilities policies. Hope that clarifies my view and gives you more answers than a simple 'yes or no'.

8-[

Joby Becker said:

but that is an issue.

A "system" can't really be learned in this format.

some techniques sure..

Click to expand...

True
That why there are sometimes a week long seminars. Even then it is nearly impossible to get the whole system. So, the main idea for seminars should be to get new perspectives. If one gets one or two clear concepts they can incorporate into thei own training program, I would say it was well worth it.
Also, I like to see what is really possible. For example the use of e collar. You see a guy like Yogi Zank use the e collar and the possible results one can achieve, you begin to want it. Need it. The way Lance Collins use it on blind search and protection, in general. You see the possibilities and they explain in very clear classical conditioning and operant conditioning theories coupled with how it affects REAL performance on the field.

The beauty of such seminars is that each dog has to be worked differently, but the theories that govern that training g remains constant.

Kadi Thingvall said:

I'm with Jamie in that I'll audit just about anything depending on price, location, etc. How much I will pay, how far I will got, etc depends on the accomplishments of the presenter and what I can find out about them as a seminar giver. IE it doesn't matter how great their accomplishments are if they can't explain how to get out of a room with only 1 door and no windows. On the flip side I have known people who may not have a huge resume of high level accomplishments themselves, but they have coached many teams to those levels and they know how to present the information in a manner that is easy to follow.

Click to expand...

THIS..... this right here...... best thing I've read all week. =D>

I think it would depend on thee credibility of the trainer, whats he trained in the past whats he achieved, what are his current dogs like etc.
I don't particularly mind if he has high level sport achievements but I would also like to see some civil work or K9 type work.
If he walks the walk then I'll pay to hear him talk The talk!

regards

Mark

Peter Cho said:

That why there are sometimes a week long seminars. Even then it is nearly impossible to get the whole system. So, the main idea for seminars should be to get new perspectives. If one gets one or two clear concepts they can incorporate into their own training program, I would say it was well worth it.

Click to expand...

I'm not a fan over super long seminars. I personally need a break and the dogs too. Especially if they are getting worked hard. I recently did 3 days with Alberto De-Carmo with 2 extra days of privates with him for a total of 5 heavy training days, it was great but the dogs slept for 2 days after. I sorta wonder when their fatigue starts to interfere with the learning process that's all I worry about.

It is one thing to audit a seminar and a big difference to participate. When you participate you still have the final say as it is your dog. But you need to do your homework and have some sort of plan going in there of why and how you and your dog will benefit from attending.

The more experience I get the more picky I am about attending just 'any' seminar or workshop. There has to be something in it for my knowledge and more important for the club dog's progress.