Yes, that was definately what he was saying. I was just so new to it all and found it funny that he was commenting this is how you put it on when my dog came out...
Prong collar and E-collar
If you have a prong collar and e-collar on your dog, which one goes on top? And Why?
I have heard many opinions on this topic and I would like to hear the opinions of WDF people. Thanx!
I have heard many opinions on this topic and I would like to hear the opinions of WDF people. Thanx!
21 - 40 of 40 Posts
One of us has a very good memory and the other not so much (me). LOL Yes, we were both at the same seminar Marta. And I do remember Bart commenting on how he uses the positioning...maybe you were the poster child for the demoCandy, you beat me to it. Maybe we were at the same seminar. I know I entered the room with my Dutch with pinch up high and e-collar below and he was commenting that he liked when the collar you are actively using or using more is on top. He thought I did it on purpose. I just put the collar where it fit, no reason behind it!
Was a GREAT seminar and lots of fun to boot!!
I've seen dual prongs used on back ties as well. I took a picture of it being used like that on a Dobe once. I didn't know it at the time but when I checked it out later it looked like the neck was about to snap. Kinda gross.Simultaneous Decoy/Handler Corrections er well "simultaneous" isn't quite the right word, but you know what I mean right?
I use two prongs on the dog when I'm using decoy corrections. One collar is facing forward and the other is facing back. When I use the e-collar too it looks like the dog pictured above.Very interesting! What would be the reason for 2 prong collars?
Are you saying string the dog out? If so shouldn't one prong collar be facing the decoy. I hate decoy corrections! I don't allow anyone to correct my dog other than me.
Who said anything about stringing a dog out? Do you always go angry emo when a person makes a remark that doesn't mesh perfectly with your personal world view?
Even in my short time in this stuff, it's apparent to me that many dogs respect (even like) their training decoys as much their handler. So, a good correction or reward from such a decoy can be just as effective as a correction or reward from the handler.
Hey, I was there too!One of us has a very good memory and the other not so much (me). LOL Yes, we were both at the same seminar Marta. And I do remember Bart commenting on how he uses the positioning...maybe you were the poster child for the demo
I remember him saying what Marta said, active collar up high.Laura
Angry emo? OK?Who said anything about stringing a dog out? Do you always go angry emo when a person makes a remark that doesn't mesh perfectly with your personal world view?
Even in my short time in this stuff, it's apparent to me that many dogs respect (even like) their training decoys as much their handler. So, a good correction or reward from such a decoy can be just as effective as a correction or reward from the handler.
I guess this is a sour subject?
I you give a correction from the front and back at the same time, is this not stringing a dog out? If you are not doing this, than why 2 prong collars? Can't your decoy just grab the dogs leash and correct him?
I am happy you like decoy correction! Just because I stated that I HATE them, doesn't mean that I am trying to get you to hate them too. It was a statement! Get over it! I'm sure you will live!
Are you saying string the dog out? If so shouldn't one prong collar be facing the decoy. I hate decoy corrections! I don't allow anyone to correct my dog other than me.
Aproching 20 years of training Schutzhund dogs I bow down to a training helper that can help me train my dog and take my dog on the biggest rollercoaster ride of his life time after time after time.Even in my short time in this stuff, it's apparent to me that many dogs respect (even like) their training decoys as much their handler. So, a good correction or reward from such a decoy can be just as effective as a correction or reward from the handler.
Here is a example if you start seeing "out" troubles believe me correcting backward or electric ain't going to fix it with a strong dog a good helper can correct in to the sleeve and pay the dog in a split second clean fast no conflict, aus bam bam bite, aus bam bam bite, aus bam bite, aus bite aus bite.
I can do nothing but laugh my ass off at some of the stupid ****s banging on dogs day after day after day with electric and long lines come trial day DQ.
Unless your a cop this this is smart sport training.
Sport is fake army boys and girls.:lol:
I know a lot of people are going to get upset with my statement. IMO If a dog has outing issues, it is the handlers fault for not teaching the behavior properly. Out should be no different than any other behavior. I can not believe that people teach their dogs Out on a decoy. Out should be taught away from any decoy conflict. If you have problems getting things away from your, than he is probably going to have Outing issues. JMOAproching 20 years of training Schutzhund dogs I bow down to a training helper that can help me train my dog and take my dog on the biggest rollercoaster ride of his life time after time after time.
Here is a example if you start seeing out troubles believe me correcting backward or electric ain't going to fix it with a strong dog a good helper can correct in to the sleeve and pay the dog in a split second clean fast no conflict aus bam bam bite, aus bam bam bite, aus bam bite, aus bite aus bite.
I can do nothing but laugh my ass off at some of the stupid ****s banging on dogs day after day after day with electric and long lines come trial day DQ.
Unless your a cop this this is smart training.
Sport is fake army boys and girls.:lol:
People can say that I have never worked with any big tough dogs, but that is their opinion.
Angry emo? OK?
I guess this is a sour subject?
I you give a correction from the front and back at the same time, is this not stringing a dog out? If you are not doing this, than why 2 prong collars? Can't your decoy just grab the dogs leash and correct him?
I am happy you like decoy correction! Just because I stated that I HATE them, doesn't mean that I am trying to get you to hate them too. It was a statement! Get over it! I'm sure you will live!
I'm happy if you're happy Jon! I like the way you turned this thing around: you've mastered a form of female argument that even my sister-in-law ( a true master) would envy!
Thanx Margaret!I'm happy if you're happy Jon! I like the way you turned this thing around: you've mastered a form of female argument that even my sister-in-law ( a true master) would envy!
We have trained deep into 100's of Schutzhund dogs through the years many roads to Rome we have taken no out troubles here we are well versed with just about every method imaginable from the Flint Stones to Mamby Pamby and use them all.I know a lot of people are going to get upset with my statement. IMO If a dog has outing issues, it is the handlers fault for not teaching the behavior properly. Out should be no different than any other behavior. I can not believe that people teach their dogs Out on a decoy. Out should be taught away from any decoy conflict. If you have problems getting things away from your, than he is probably going to have Outing issues. JMO
People can say that I have never worked with any big tough dogs, but that is their opinion.
Thanks Mike!Aproching 20 years of training Schutzhund dogs I bow down to a training helper that can help me train my dog and take my dog on the biggest rollercoaster ride of his life time after time after time.
Here is a example if you start seeing "out" troubles believe me correcting backward or electric ain't going to fix it with a strong dog a good helper can correct in to the sleeve and pay the dog in a split second clean fast no conflict, aus bam bam bite, aus bam bam bite, aus bam bite, aus bite aus bite.
I can do nothing but laugh my ass off at some of the stupid ****s banging on dogs day after day after day with electric and long lines come trial day DQ.
Unless your a cop this this is smart sport training.
Sport is fake army boys and girls.:lol:
The one time I've seen two collars used was for anticipation in defense of handler: intensely drivey dog who after much effort from his highly competent handler just didn't want to wait for the formalities to come to a close. And the dog was NOT strung up.
I used two on my Rottweiler for force retrieve one sharpened one not the final product was beautiful he would return sit in front and have this low growl with his little stump wiggling I would out the dumbbell he would bounce super high into a swing finish and be in over drive!!!Thanks Mike!
The one time I've seen two collars used was for anticipation in defense of handler: intensely drivey dog who after much effort from his highly competent handler just didn't want to wait for the formalities to come to a close. And the dog was NOT strung up.
God he had smoking retrieves.
OK, since no one has addressed it, I think someone needs to point out WHY a prong or choke should be above an e-collar. I always learned when you have full control of a dog's head you will have control of the dog....and you do that by having the collar as high up on the neck as you can go, right behind the ears...you can basically steer your dog in any direction you want it to go by turning it's head in that direction. YOu can turn the dog's head and keep it from staring at another dog, change direction, etc. Having the e-collar above the other collar doesn;t allow you to do that. I have been able to control dogs that weigh even more than I do with a thin show choke right up behind their ears with no problems.
I would be interested in knowing also but I doubt that it realy matters much the way I use it has worked worked for 10s of thousands of of dogs around the world so for now I'll just carry on.OK, since no one has addressed it, I think someone needs to point out WHY a prong or choke should be above an e-collar. I always learned when you have full control of a dog's head you will have control of the dog....and you do that by having the collar as high up on the neck as you can go, right behind the ears...you can basically steer your dog in any direction you want it to go by turning it's head in that direction. YOu can turn the dog's head and keep it from staring at another dog, change direction, etc. Having the e-collar above the other collar doesn;t allow you to do that. I have been able to control dogs that weigh even more than I do with a thin show choke right up behind their ears with no problems.
Hey Mike, FYI....it's spelled "WEAR" not ware like warehouse.
I'm not a trainer but two trainers have told me to keep the pincher higher than the e-collar. One told me that a pincher worn lower on the dog's neck could puncture it's trachea if it got a very hard pop. I don't know the truth. It is merely an explanation I'm passing along. The other trainer said I'd have better control of his head movements if it were worn high on the neck.
using a prong or pincollar in the WRONG way can open a whole lot of problems for you, trachea paralasis/spasms to name but one...not something you would want to have happen to your dog..hence the ecollar goes on the throat and the prong/pinch goes up behind the ears.
That's exactly what I was told Alice and I"m using them like that everyday. Sometimes the pincher slips down below the e-collar so I'm adjusting it a lot though.
21 - 40 of 40 Posts
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