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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
after reading lacey's question on how to try to rectify this, it suddenly popped into my head that this may be worth a try:

i think i would try putting a post (or something like it) on the ground in front of the jump that would leave the dog room for only one-two strides between it and the jump. like an in-and-out in the horse world.

so the dog would do a little hop, one stride, then the take-off. don't know if it'd work, may need to put wings leading into the post to keep the dog "aimed",....and i'm talking about a good-sized wooden fence post or a railroad tie so the dog's approach gets interupted (sp?) enough to force the closer take-off. FWIW :)

what ideas did you get from your group lacey? an interesting problem...
 

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Tim Martens said:
they sell this cream that will de-sensitiz...

oh wait. pre-mature TAKE OFF....

nevermind...
Now that was funny right there.

DFrost
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
this place is as bad as work: a person makes a completely serious post, and it goes straight down to the gutter :roll: no wonder i feel so comfortable here :D
 

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Uhmmmm I gotta admit when I glanced at the subject heading, I had the same nasty thoughts :), but then it was a long day yesterday (good excuse).

As for the suggestions I received from fellow AWMA members, there were several that you can check out on their site, to be perfectly honest I have not been able to work Coda (dumbell routine) the last couple of days as we were getting ready for our trip for Rommel's BH. We are going back to training tomorrow full force, so I'll be sure to let those that are interested know what works.....at least for us.

Ann thanks for the suggestion - I do intend to try your suggestion. A top competitor in SchH/IPO suggested something along the same lines. I just bought a hurdle and the A frame so that I could have the set-up in my backyard (and be able to transport them to various fields/parks that we use) to train anytime I want. Need to make a trip to Lowe's to pick-up some items to help me fix the problem :wink: .

Hoping to title her in OB/TR 1,2,3 before Sept (she'll be two then) and then go for her SchH/IPO 1 in Sept - 2 in Oct and 3 in Nov. I then want to move on to Ring with her - by then "Zane" (my soon-to-be-here Mal pup) should be ready to start SchH/IPO training. I know big dreams - but definitely an attainable goal :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
would you let me know what works for you? it's got to be handy somewhere down the line-i figure knowledge is always good...
 

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I sure will Ann. I noticed at the trial this weekend the most consistent "ding" that handlers got at all levels was an incorrect or could be more correct front when it came to the dumbell routine. Here's to hoping that I don't create another problem - while fixing this one :roll:
 

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Lacey, are you jumping full height? IMHO, I don't think there is any reason to do that other prepairing for an up comming trial. I think to many people raise the jump height before the dog is really comfortable in the mechanics of jumping.
Thunder is one of the more athletic jumpers at club. That means I don't do a lot of work on the jumps. His finish is practiced over a jump that is barely shoulder height.
As far as creating a crooked front off the jump. Work on them separately. Work EVERY excercise separately until each is where you want it to be.
When the dog makes a nice jump, we give a huge "YES" and reward the dog.
As you say, "Don't create another problem - while fixing this one."

Disclaimer: All the advice I give doesn't mean my dog is any good at what we do. It just means I can BS with the best of them. :lol: :wink:
 

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I started teaching her the jump at a very low level (1 ft) right after I got her hips and elbows prelims back from OFA. Each month I increased it by one board length but I did not jump her that much - maybe once a week until just recently. I brought it all the way up, to the full height, starting just about a month ago. Just to see if she could actually jump the full height and I have since brought it back down. Like you suggested, I taught her each exercise separately - and very slowly. It was not until I put the entire exercise together that she started this taking off early stuff - which I really feel has more to do with her high prey/retrieve drive then anything because if I just stand on one side or another of the jump (without throwing anything for her to retrieve) and have her jump over she takes off fine and lands fine without the hang time or leaving the ground early. I was hoping to go for her OB1 at the end of this month, but I'm looking more at April now because I really feel that I need to fix this as I don't want her to injure herself - no title is worth that to me.

I do use Good when she does anything correctly and then okay to release her for her reward. No for if she did an exercise(or part of an exercise) incorrectly and then start from the beginning.
 

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Sometimes going up is the solution, instead of going down.

If the jump is to low, then your dog doesn't have to think about technique to clear it, and can focus on what it wants, the retrieve object. To the point of all technique going out the window.

With some dogs, if you raise the jump to a height where they have to work to get up and over it, they will remain more aware of the jump, and putting in the effort/technique to clear it properly vs just flinging themselves over it.
 

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jumps

Ann, if you want to teach your dog to jump....follow the way I have taught horses to jump cleanly. I use this with my dogs. You were on the right track in you initial post, but.....set the pole or (I just use a 2x4 the length of the jump- I built a SchH jump in my yard) narrow piece of wood the same distance from the fence as the height of the jump. To be clear...if the jump is 2ft high the pole should be 2 ft straight out from the base of the jump. This will teach the dog to set up & take the last stride before the jump & jump with a proper form. You should start with the jump very low & work up over time. BTW horses that do Grand Prix jumping do not school over the 5+ ft jumps...they are schooled over 3 1/2 ft fences & the concentration is on the flat work, (striding) between the fences to set the horse up for the jumps. When the horses or dogs know the correct mechanics of jumping the height is not an issue. That is providing they have the athleticism to jump the heights. The concussion of jumping excessive heights is very damaging over time to the skellital system & not necessary in oder to learn to jump. You don't need to set up gumnastics for the dogs in order for them to lean to jump correctly. One jump set up the way that I stated works & teachs the mechanicas necessary for them to learn. The day before a trial have the dog jump 3/4 of the height for the trial a couple of times & then jump a couple of times set at the trial hight. That is all you need to do. That last height is the one that they will have in their mind the next day when they see the jump at the trial. For your pups, you don't want them to jump heights so I just set up a 2x4 in their path so that they learn the mechanics by jumping over it & it prepars them for the future when physically it is safe for them to jump without doing permant damage to their limbs & skellital system. Hope this helps.
 

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Re: jumps

Anne Jones said:
BTW horses that do Grand Prix jumping do not school over the 5+ ft jumps...they are schooled over 3 1/2 ft fences & the concentration is on the flat work, (striding) between the fences to set the horse up for the jumps. When the horses or dogs know the correct mechanics of jumping the height is not an issue.
Although I agree about how jumping horses are schooled (I schooled my mare the same way, although she wasn't near a Grand Prix jumper) the difference is there isn't a big bucket of grain on the far side of the jump. :D And we did use larger jumps sometimes to 'back a horse off' if it was just crazy about jumping and throwing itself over vs thinking about what it was doing.

From what I read the problem starts when the dumbell is introduced. At that point the dogs drive for the dumbell overrides it's jump technique training, and it all goes out the window in it's desire to just get to the dumbell as quickly as possible.

I've seen this problem many times with my Malinois and what has worked is reps of jumping only, with the focus on technique, and reps with the retrieve object and a jump high enough to make the dog think about what it's doing, so it understands just because it knows the retrieve object is out there, it can't just throw all technique out the window.
 

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Anne,
I would think the placing of a board the same distance from the jump as the height of the jump might create problems. I always teach the dog that if he goes over the hurdle or A frame, he must come back over the jump, even at low heights. What do you do when the dog has to return over the jump and the board is laying where the dog could land on it? Or do you just use the board for jumping in one direction and then fade it out after the dog is jumping better? I don't want the dog to learn that not coming back over the jump is an option.
 

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Although it has only been 2 days of working her, I think I have found what appears to be working for her. Lowering the hurdle to various lengths I saw no problems what-so-ever in her jumping over and back as I stood (like one does in ring) on the side of the jump. As soon as I introduced the dumbell back in - the problem with her jumping prematurely began again at each of the lower level heights - even with an obstacle in place. Kadi was right in the assessment of her problem being the drive for the dumbell, knowing that she can easily clear the hurdle when it is low without thought, Coda concentrated completely on wanting to hurry-up and get the dumbell and return and did the early jump and hang time again. When the hurdle is raised a tad higher then trial regs - she does have to concentrate on the hurdle first - it does not noticeably slow her speed but she does not leave prematurely or return that way. As I don't work the hurdle in excess because she does everything else near perfect - no mouthing the dumbell, very good to excellent front consistently and fast retrieve I think I will stick to keeping the hurdle up high. I did move two steps in from where I normally send her from and shortened the distance of my throw of the dumbell a little. Maybe doing this exercise a couple of times a week, so as not to put to much strain on her joints/bones will be enough to keep her consistent at jumping correctly. Here's hoping. Thanks to everyone for your suggestions, really appreciate your help.

No doubt that Coda knew she did good - as did everyone else within hearing distance....I was jumping around and acting like the fool for all to see when she finally got it just right. I must've thrown the kong as a reward about 30 times for her :D
 
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