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Preference for a Docked or Natural Tail on Boerboels?

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Preference for a Docked or Natural Tail on Boerboels?

28638 Views 29 Replies 17 Participants Last post by  Wawashkashi Tashi, 
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Trying to decide with my next litter of Boerboels.....
My 1st litter I left the tails natural, except for the lone fawn pup whose tail was dislocated -his was docked. Following the docking, which I DO believe is a huge physical insult to a neonate, he straggled behind his siblings for a bit. All the other males in the litter are a minimum of 125# (working weight), while he is around 110#. Personally, I could care less about size.. I liked his temperament & attitude so much he's the male I kept for myself, but am concerned about the potential physical harm amputating does to young pups.
Because of the Boerboel being a "composite" breed, you get all kinds of different tails, when you leave them on. Mine seem to favor the Boerhound/Great Dane welt-raising tail that can bring a man to his knees when the dog gets happy! Often heard uttered around my house when my bitch Teal (aka The Tail) is hopping about is "Think Sad Thoughts!!!". -Much preferred is the "softer" Bullmastiff type tail.

Docked:



One of each, tho the tailed bitch is from me:


And WITH the tail:


This last one is the Bullmastiff "pump handle" type tail, whish is IME much less painful when you do get whacked with it. He's not from my breeding.
Thanks for your $.02! ;)
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Oluwatobi Odunuga said:
Tashi- The tailed bitch [sphyrna is her name] is a great dog also. Do you know where he got the fawn male[sting] from?
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Haha.. I know her name: ;-) Dichotomy Sphyrna-Batu is her registered name.. this is her dam, my bitch Dichotomy Batu:


Sphyrna's sire is that blue brindle dog. I kept her for Dapo for a bit to put some foundation bitework on her & shipped her over around 2 years ago. I think at the time the shipping was about $2800, not including Health Certs, crate, etc. Now I've been told they have passed some BS laws that you have to go through a shipping company when sending dogs from the US.. maybe someone who knows better can comment on that though..?

Sting is an *Excellent* dog!!! I hope to get to breed to him in the near future! [-o< He is from Marvel, although I haven't heard of them turning out to many "workable" dogs.. Dapo got a real good find in Sting. If I were going to look for something workable from a more popular SA breeder, I would go talk to Baden, although I'd *definitely* go test the dogs myself. I've seen a few working dogs from Baden, like Baden Remy, who we did work/test. She is the dam of my fawn male Kala:


Thanks for the compliment on "my" bitch! ;-)
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Jeff Oehlsen said:
I wouldn't give you 15 bucks for one of those dogs. Yuck. That is weird about the docking though, I always did it first day if not right away, but I never tried half and half. Of course barbells might just be more sensitive to docking than Rotts. It is weird, and of course you call amputation. LOL
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I didn't figure you'd have much use for one.. they'd probably be way too "sticky" for you too. I've talked to lots of Rott & Dobie breeders that report the same thing about the docked pups falling behind the undocked, when in the same litter. They were docking some & leaving others au natural so they could sell 'em abroad, I believe.
I often say "amputation" cuz I work(ed) in the veterinary community & that is what it literally IS! Just like I often say radiograph instead of xray, & knocked down (for sedation), etc.. it's just a bastardized combo of more common lingo & laziness. lol :p
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kendell jones
Wawashkashi Tashi said:
If you tested anything that was worth a damn, you'll have to PM me about it! I'm always on the look-out for anything that has a proper temperament.
Yeah.. with most Boerboels (or most any mastiffs), their owners will have them anywhere from 10-40# overweight ~then~ will say they are 10# heavier than that! lol -Most I've seen are pretty size-obsessed. I prefer the smaller/houndier version of the breed, the more I work them. Although even the big boys are surprisingly fast & agile for their size, when they have proper drive IMO.
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unfortunately, not even close. One of them had done a BH, but to this day, I couldn't figure out how. I swear a 20 foot recall took the dog 10 minutes and I thought she was going to die walking that far. It was pretty disgusting. Temperament wise, they were friendly, but that's about where it ended. I've got more drive in my pinky toe than I saw in these dogs and they were grossly over-sized.
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Maren Bell Jones
Bob Scott said:
Wackem!
As far as needing the tail for balance, I think any terrier person, Aussie person, German Short hair person, yadda, yadda, yadda will disagree with that.
I personally know a Lab that lost her tail in a accident (crushed in a car door) and she never missed a lick when swimming.
I have no problem with docking or cropping as long as they are done correctly.
A lot of the same wackos that push the "need" to ban docking and cropping are some of the same folks that tell you all dogs need their nuts cut off. Go figure!
It's all a choice!
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That's probably why all the Aussies get beat by the BCs in agility, disc, and herding. :lol: ;-) I'm not even approaching it from a "let's ban it because it's cruel" perspective, but a performance perspective. Anyways, we've discussed it before, but it's not like a docked dog "can't" perform, but if you look at any tailed dog doing disc or any other activity that requires a high degree of speed plus turning or jumping or whatever, the tails are in motion acting as a counter balance. Watching sighthounds course a lure or a live animal, their tails almost helicopter around as they try to make a fast turn at 40 mph. Cheetahs are mentioned, but animals as diverse as rats to velociraptors to kangaroos use or used their tails as a counter balance when moving at high speeds, jumping, balancing, and climbing. For performance reasons, would I want a docked dog for what I do? No. Actual go to ground terriers may be the one exception, but as I have no use for a terrier, meh...

What I always find ironic is that it seems to be the show breeders who protest not cropping or docking the most because they always say the dog needs it for work, but they work their dogs the least. I guess they are scared they will actually have to fix the ear sets or tail sets? *shrug* If they want ears that stand, breed for it. If they don't want skimpy whip tails, breed for it.

I always have been curious though, for breeds designed for a similar use, why is the pit bull often cropped but the American bulldog not? Why is the Pembroke Welsh corgi docked but the Cardigan is not? Why is the Boerboel docked but the bullmastiff not? Why is the Rottweiler not cropped but docked and often not to the same length as a Doberman? In the end, I think it mostly comes down to what people are used to seeing. Like 20 years ago, it was much more common to see cropped boxers. Now it's pretty uncommon to see a pet Boxer cropped and more common to see them natural eared, but you still see them docked. Ah, silly humans and our trends... ;-)
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Sara Waters
It is illegal to dock tails in Australia too. I dont know about other working dogs but they are essential to my herding dogs as they use them for balance and steering in those fast tight turns when mustering and for balance when backing across 100s of sheep in the yards. My dogs work in extreme conditions and I know how they use their tails to give them the edge, I just have to watch them working and no one gonna convince me otherwise. To me they are a very functional part of a dog. Same with ACDs dealing with station cattle - split second timing from under those hooves sometimes and they most certainly use their tails

They are also a very expressive part of the dog.
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Tashi,

I'm very pleased with Sphyrna though in that shot we let her go first as the lead dog in a 2 dog attack. I find the tailed dogs have better natural balance "rudder" wise (function). The docked dogs tend to look tidier (aesthetics).
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kendell jones said:
unfortunately, not even close. One of them had done a BH, but to this day, I couldn't figure out how. I swear a 20 foot recall took the dog 10 minutes and I thought she was going to die walking that far. It was pretty disgusting. Temperament wise, they were friendly, but that's about where it ended. I've got more drive in my pinky toe than I saw in these dogs and they were grossly over-sized.
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Sadly, that's not unexpected. Not too many folks are actually trying to preserve any historic value of the breed.. same sad song as most the other "working" breeds. When I have been approached about breeding to one of my males, I ask the ppl where they think their bitch is "lacking" & what they are trying to produce, so I have an idea of what male's personality/temperament will best suit that particular breeding. Since so far I always get the answer that "my bitch is PERFECT", I tell them they are obviously doing better than me & probably wouldn't want to taint their stuff with mine, since it's a long way from perfect! lol! :p
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Dapo Ojora said:
Tashi,I'm very pleased with Sphyrna though in that shot we let her go first as the lead dog in a 2 dog attack. I find the tailed dogs have better natural balance "rudder" wise (function). The docked dogs tend to look tidier (aesthetics).
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Nice to see you aboard! So your vote goes for "Pro-Tail"..? ;-)
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Wawashkashi Tashi said:
Sadly, that's not unexpected. Not too many folks are actually trying to preserve any historic value of the breed.. same sad song as most the other "working" breeds. When I have been approached about breeding to one of my males, I ask the ppl where they think their bitch is "lacking" & what they are trying to produce, so I have an idea of what male's personality/temperament will best suit that particular breeding. Since so far I always get the answer that "my bitch is PERFECT", I tell them they are obviously doing better than me & probably wouldn't want to taint their stuff with mine, since it's a long way from perfect! lol! :p
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Good answer! I got a good chuckle out of it, and it put a big grin on my face.
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Sharon Bank said:
Good answer! I got a good chuckle out of it, and it put a big grin on my face.
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Always nice to cheer up a dog-friend's day! ;) When are you going to bring your big beasties to come & visit?? I'd come to you, but I have a hard enough time getting my local "puppy-owners" to bring their mutts out for people to see/meet when it's just a 20 minute drive! :razz: Ha!
Hope all is well!
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