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Is there anybody here that uses only praise and does not use food, balls and tugs to reward their working dogs? If so, why? Thanks.
Praise Only Reward?
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I do. Not in the learning stage, but if they´re in the "must do so,´cause I´m telling them to do it" stage, they´re rewarded with praise (voice or petting).
Ball is then only used to relief tension after an excercise and as reward for good working in the whole session.
Ball is then only used to relief tension after an excercise and as reward for good working in the whole session.
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Mike, if I ask my dog to sit and he does, and I don't give him a treat or a toy for doing so, would you define that as "compulsion"?Mike Schoonbrood said:
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Guilty. I never used treats, toys or any other form of rewards except praises. There was never a need for those and in fact I find them as distractions in real work. All our dogs in our small group are handler-driven and worked early to take directions from their handlers. Our chief means of communicating with our dogs are the VOICE, EYES AND GESTURES. Wotks best...
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You're including beginning-obedience, right?Jose Alberto Reanto said:
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Connie Sutherland said:
Yes, I include beginning obedience and you can't do compulsion with pups 7 weeks old.
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Can I hear more about gestures? I want to learn more about commands from a distance (or even just as a backup to voice). Do you use gestures (hand signals) for basic commands, as well as verbal signals?Jose Alberto Reanto said:
Also, this may sound stupid......I'm just thinking out loud.......... what about gestures indicating praise? I don't mean eliminating voice at all; I just mean maybe changing it up. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge (or ideas) about this?
I realize that hand signals for commands are common; I'd just like to hear what people think of the practice. The praise part with signals may not be common. (Again, maybe it's silly!
)
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for my understanding: for discussion sakes; Mike, is compulsion dwang?
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Ja, dwang, forceren, doen om dat ik het zeg niet om dat het leuk is om te doen, doen om dat het mij blij maakt.Selena van Leeuwen said:
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Well, Connie, It's something that you cannot switch to overnight. It all starts with how you laid the foundation for your dog. In fact, it all begins there and much training issues are all resolved during foundation training to ensure fluidity in training for future vocation.Connie Sutherland said:Can I hear more about gestures? I want to learn more about commands from a distance (or even just as a backup to voice). Do you use gestures (hand signals) for basic commands, as well as verbal signals?
Also, this may sound stupid......I'm just thinking out loud.......... what about gestures indicating praise? I don't mean eliminating voice at all; I just mean maybe changing it up. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge (or ideas) about this?
I realize that hand signals for commands are common; I'd just like to hear what people think of the practice. The praise part with signals may not be common. (Again, maybe it's silly!
Remember the dog is your friend, probably the best you'll ever have. You don't trick, bribe, coerce or bully a friend. You simply guide him to your world.
Here's a video clip of a 9-10 week old pup doing OB/Agility...
http://www.dropshots.com/day.php?userid=102482&cdate=20060519&ctime=152856
Please take time to visit my website for exercises that are all done WITHOUT treats or toys. The dogs were neither routined nor drilled. It obeys because the handler says so, and not because he has a ball or a treat to reward it with.
http://www.asonial-k9.com/html/training_photos.html
Best regards...
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QUOTE:
Remember the dog is your friend, probably the best you'll ever have. You don't trick, bribe, coerce or bully a friend. You simply guide him to your world. END
No, I don't trick, bribe, coerce, or bully. I do reward, though.
BTW, I'm not sure who you're addressing.......? (You used Selena's name and my quote.)
As to this sentence quoted, I agree 100%.
I'm looking at my own basic ob training (motivational, treats in the instruction phase...) with dogs who don't belong to me........ I'm interested in your statement about gestures, asking about gestures used sometimes instead of voice commands, and also hoping for discussion on whether gestures can be incorporated into praise as well.
Remember the dog is your friend, probably the best you'll ever have. You don't trick, bribe, coerce or bully a friend. You simply guide him to your world. END
No, I don't trick, bribe, coerce, or bully. I do reward, though.
BTW, I'm not sure who you're addressing.......? (You used Selena's name and my quote.)
As to this sentence quoted, I agree 100%.
I'm looking at my own basic ob training (motivational, treats in the instruction phase...) with dogs who don't belong to me........ I'm interested in your statement about gestures, asking about gestures used sometimes instead of voice commands, and also hoping for discussion on whether gestures can be incorporated into praise as well.
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Connie, I'm sorry. I corrected my post...Connie Sutherland said:QUOTE:
Remember the dog is your friend, probably the best you'll ever have. You don't trick, bribe, coerce or bully a friend. You simply guide him to your world. END
No, I don't trick, bribe, coerce, or bully. I do reward, though.
BTW, I'm not sure who you're addressing.......? (You used Selena's name and my quote.)
As to this sentence quoted, I agree 100%.
I'm looking at my own basic ob training (motivational, treats in the instruction phase...) with dogs who don't belong to me........ I'm interested in your statement about gestures, asking about gestures used sometimes instead of voice commands, and also hoping for discussion on whether gestures can be incorporated into praise as well.
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Can you discuss gestures more? I am intrigued, if you have time/inclination.
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Actually, I will visit your site first......... I just saw that you had posted a link.Connie Sutherland said:
Thanks!
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As I train only PSDs I use compulsion with verbal and a lot of both verbal and physical praise upon succesful completion of any obedience exercise. In my line of work they have to perform it right the first time or it could cost the city and me a lot of money! So I do not use tugs, toys or food.
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But as well as your dogs work wouldn't they work better if you rewarded them with something more tangible such as food and toys?
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Again, it probably depends on how you raised him up. But then I believe in the saying as proven in my case, that the dog's ultimate reward is to work alongside his master for a pat, a praise or a tiny titbit.Patrick Murray said:
Best regards...
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Am I taking a "tiny titbit" to mean a treat?Jose Alberto Reanto said:
I do have a dog who works for praise. Andi has been so starved for attention all of her life that she'll do anything to get me to pet her. I've never any other dog this would work with, though. I really interests me, Jose, that you're able to work entirely w/o object rewards.
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Me, too.Jose Alberto Reanto said:
I love giving that pat, praise, or tiny tidbit for working alongside me, and I love my dogs' pleasure at receiving them. O
And Jose, your web site and your dogs are wonderful! Wow!
Praise and compulsion was all I used before I became a convert to motivational. I had good success with it at a competition level, so I'll never trash is as old fashoned or obsolete. Food and toys are just something I've become a big believer in.
If someone told me, 20, 30, 40+ yrs ago that I would be a food trainer, Ida probably shot myself. :lol: :wink:
If someone told me, 20, 30, 40+ yrs ago that I would be a food trainer, Ida probably shot myself. :lol: :wink:
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