[Kevin Graham]

Hello all. Was hoping someone could share first hand experiences with a Colby APBT with me. An old friend of mine owns one but is not able to much longer because of a move. He offered to give him to me. He's a little over 1 year old, and I'm certain he's the real deal - I just don't have any experience with Colby pits or this dog in particular.

I've been around dogs all of my life and have owned many. My level of experience is at the amatuer level at this point, but I have an interest in focusing on things like agility, weight pull, and bite work, dedicating more time to the subject of training

 

[Andy Andrews]

What specifically do you want to know?

The Colby line itself is an old/famous strain of gamedogs developed by John P. Colby in the late 1800's. Generally, a tight bred Colby dog will be on the smaller side, usually going around 25-40lbs and will exhibit all the characteristic traits of a gamedog. You'll get a dog with strength, agility, natural wind, and a hard mouth. This will be a dog that's submissive to any/all humans but will most likely be extremely dog aggressive.

There are other dogs advertised as "Colby" just because they're brindle and/or have Colby dogs in their *distant* pedigree. If your Colby is from one of these lines, then all bets are off as far as generalizations go. This kind of dog will vary greatly in size, type, and temperament, so it's going to be a crapshoot as far as knowing what you've got.

You'd do well to get the dog involved in weight-pull but I wouldn't recommend bitework unless you're looking at it just for sport. I'm a newbie to bitework myself, but I think a Colby dog would lack the right traits and size of a protection dog.

If still have questions then you could contact Louis Colby and ask him for help. I'm sure he could give you a lot of advice/help.

Here's his website: http://www.colbypitbull.com/

Hope this helps.


Andy.

 

[Connie Sutherland]

BTW, Kevin, welcome!

Do you have other dogs, too?

 

[Kevin Graham]

I appreciate the info, Andy. If this were to be a true Colby pit, what other fields would you suggest giving him a shot at? So far weight pull and agility are definites. Is there anything about that line I need to be aware of - potential problems, or maybe just small weaknesses? Is it known which training methods these dogs react best to, or would "the best training method" be primarily based upon the individual dog?

Connie thanks for the welcome. I do have other dogs - an American Bulldog, Boston Terrier, and ACD mix.


Here's one of em

 

[Andy Andrews]

Kevin,

A good pit bulldog can excel at just about any sport, so it's all really up to you and the time you're willing to dedicate to training. You can contact the WPBTCA for more information on pit-friendly sports and events throughout the country. It's a really good organization and they're doing their part to fight BSL by creating a more positive breed image.

*edit* Here's the link: http://www.wpbtca.com/index.htm

If it were my dog, I'd get involved in SAR and therapy work, along with public education/responsible ownership.


Andy.

 

[Kevin Graham]

Cool

Thanks for the link.

 

[Konnie Hein]

Quote Andy:

If it were my dog, I'd get involved in SAR and therapy work, along with public education/responsible ownership.

If he exhibits this particular trait you suggested a Colby APBT typically has...

This will be a dog that's submissive to any/all humans but will most likely be extremely dog aggressive.

...then he would not be suitable for SAR or therapy work. I know you'd probably agree with me on this, Andy, but I was pointing it out in case the OP wasn't aware of this.

 

[Andy Andrews]

Konnie,

I'm only a newb but I actually disagree. I think it requires a great deal of understanding of the breed and their tendencies, but with proper training to instill obedience and stability, I see no reason a dog aggressive dog cannot function in SAR or therapy work. The real obstacle is overcoming public criticism and getting the organizations to allow/certify the dogs to work.

We both know APBT are not commonly used in either venue, but the ones that are do just fine.



Andy.

 

[Jeff Oehlsen]

Quote: "Where Angels And Marines Fear To Tread, There You'll Find A Corpsman Dead."

Ya, cause we threw you there to see who shot at you. :twisted:

I always liked the docs, had my quell and penny always ready. :lol:



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[David Frost]

<<<I see no reason a dog aggressive dog cannot function in SAR>>>

The answer to that is; it's not breed specific, it's behavior specific. Dogs that show aggression to other dogs are not permitted by and reputable SAR organization that I'm familiar with. I can't speak for therapy dogs, never been involved with them, I do, however, know a little about SAR requirements.

DFrost

 

[Andy Andrews]

"The answer to that is; it's not breed specific, it's behavior specific."

I disagree. My point is that there's no reason why aggression issues cannot be controlled/eradicated by proper training. In my experience, the hard part is persuading people/clubs/organizations to give the dogs a chance to prove themselves.

IIRC, when Kristine Crawford began training her 3 APBT for SAR/therapy work she had a hard time combating the common stereotypes. She was basically forced to train and certify her dogs by herself and was not welcomed/acknowledged until after her dogs began to recieve attention for their accomplishments.


Andy.

 

[Konnie Hein]

Andy:
If the aggression can be completely eradicated by training, then it obviously wouldn't pose an issue. Typically SAR trainers don't specialize in this type of behavior modification though. They simply train dogs for SAR.

I guess my point is that a good SAR trainer picks the right dog for the job, regardless of breed. SAR isn't about campaigning any certain breed or dispelling public misconceptions about a certain breed. It is about using the best tool (whether human, canine or mechanical) to find lost people, plain and simple.

No one breed is better or worse than another for SAR - its about the specific traits of an individual dog. I just wouldn't bother with a dog-aggressive dog, regardless of breed, because I'm looking for the easiest/fastest route to get a dog trained for the job. If my job were to put out fires, would I pick up the hose with holes in it and work on patching it so I could eventually run water through it? Or would I just pick up the hose with no holes and use it immediately?

Sorry to hi-jack your thread, Kevin. Its probably all a moot point, unless you plan on working a dog-aggressive dog in SAR :wink:

 

[David Frost]

I don't see what in the world you can disagree with. I never said you couldn't eradicate the behavior. I never said behavior couldn't be modified. What I actually said was, a dog that shows dog aggression would not be considered for SAR.

You can argue that fact all day, none the less, that's the way it is. It's not breed specific, it's behavior specific. I select dogs for drugs and bomb detection because of certain traits. That doesn't mean dogs with out those traits can't be trained. IT does mean I won't select them. Trainers that do SAR work, or at least the ones I'm familiar with in respected programs, will not select a dog that displays any dog aggression.

Again, don't get hung up and try to make this some sort of breed prohibition, or an anti BSL forum. It's purely behavior specific.


By the way, having had need of corpmen, they have my utmost respect. I'd never make light of what they do.

DFrost

 

[Andy Andrews]

Konnie,

I'm sure your experience in SAR far exceeds mine, but I'd argue that the traits/abilities APBT bring to the table are well worth the training required to modify aggressive behavior. And let's not forget that the breed varies drastically in type and temperament between the bloodlines, and dog aggression is not necessarily an inevitable trait, even among gamebred lines.

And to clarify my original statement about involvement in SAR/therapy work...

"it's all really up to you and the time you're willing to dedicate to training"

I know what these dogs are capable of and would do what is needed to ensure that they'd be successful.



Andy.

 

[Kevin Graham]

No sweat Konnie. I enjoy the information.

 

[Connie Sutherland]

This will be a dog that's submissive to any/all humans but will most likely be extremely dog aggressive.

This was your post, Andy.

Konnie answered: If the aggression can be completely eradicated by training, then it obviously wouldn't pose an issue. END

David said: It's not breed specific, it's behavior specific. END

Are you actually reading? :lol: You're defending against NO ATTACK.

Kevin, nice looking dog! I hoped the picture would get bigger when I clicked on it, and ta-da!

 

[Connie Sutherland]

Kevin, do you have more pictures? 8)

 

[Andy Andrews]

David,

I do believe I misinterpreted your previous post. However, experiences do vary and I don't believe it's accurate to say that SAR selection is strictly behavior specific.

Obviously, ANY dog displaying active aggression would be eliminated from further evaluation. That's not the issue. While I'm not pointing the BSL finger at any person or organization, I'm stating that experiences do vary depending on location and perception. In at least *some* areas of the world, even considering an APBT for service work is/would be frowned upon.

In the past, I had proposed bringing therapy trained APBT into the hospital where I work, but lets just that idea was sent to the bottom of the waste basket..despite the fact that similarly trained labradors are allowed and there is no BSL in this area.





*FYI* I'm not a Corpsman(yet) but they have my respect.




*edit: spelling*

 

[Konnie Hein]

And let's not forget that the breed varies drastically in type and temperament between the bloodlines, and dog aggression is not necessarily an inevitable trait, even among gamebred lines

Which is why I said that I don't care about breed. To me, its all about the individual dog itself and what that particular dog brings to the table. I really don't care for poodles, but if I happened upon the only one in the world that had all the right drives for SAR, I'd train it in a heartbeat. Would I be laughed at wherever I went? Probably. But I don't care. SAR is ONLY about getting and using the best tool for finding lost people.

but I'd argue that the traits/abilities APBT bring to the table are well worth the training required to modify aggressive behavior

No, they aren't - not if you're serious about SAR work and finding lost people. I could train 2 non-dog aggressive dogs for SAR in the amount of time it would take me to modify the aggressive behavior (and then do the SAR training) of any dog-aggressive dog of any breed. It really doesn't have anything to do with breed. Its the time involved in the training. I've had several teammates with pitbulls in SAR. They are great dogs, but no better than any of the other breeds we work with.

Then you have to remember that some jurisdictions won't allow you to set foot on their soil with a pit bull, regardless of its SAR-dog status. All that time and training would be flushed down the toilet. No breed is worth that risk. My goal is to find people, and I'm not very good at that without a dog.

 

[Andy Andrews]

"This was your post, Andy."


And? :?

That post was in reference to a specific bloodline. It's not indicative of all gamebred lines, nor does it generalize the breed as a whole.


I think I'm officially lost now, I don't think I even remember what this thread is/was about.


:idea: *taking his toys and going to bed* :idea: