Working Dog Forums banner

21 - 39 of 39 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
I stopped using a prong about 6 months or something like that. Similar to what Jennifer said, my dog would just pull through it whether dead or live ring.

It does make it easier to go anywhere, but one day I was rubbing his neck and there were lumps..turned out to be crusty festered lumps that you could pull hair and get a chunk of puss or whatever with it.

It wasn't from corrections,the collar was a large diameter HS.. just too much abrasion during any type of outings. I just use a flat leather now. Is there anyhing faster than a microwave ??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
828 Posts
i have never seen or heard of abbrasions from a prong before, i use them all the time at class on various breeds and temperments or dogs, i use med HS , rounded tips , i did have one time marks from a small prong as the tips are sharper and pickier , on a broken coat jack russel

anyone else heard of marks caused from a prong, not saying it didnt happen gerry or that it was misuse or anything just wondering if this happens often

So far my 6 month guy has only been on a flat for training , i recently put him on a e- collar to ensure recall , his recall was pretty great but there was times he would blow me off cuz something was more intereseting, i didnt want that to become a habit or option, so he wears it to ensure a recall but all other training is on a flat
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
i have never seen or heard of abbrasions from a prong before, i use them all the time at class on various breeds and temperments or dogs, i use med HS , rounded tips , i did have one time marks from a small prong as the tips are sharper and pickier , on a broken coat jack russel

anyone else heard of marks caused from a prong, not saying it didnt happen gerry or that it was misuse or anything just wondering if this happens often
You also have 9 dogs that will take an afternoon stroll down a country road together..while singing some Cat Stevens song, because you haven't heard of it before don't mean it hasn't happened.

Misuse my hairy white ass, what color is the sky in your world ??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
828 Posts
i didnt accuse you of misuse, re read the post ,
just said i have not seen marks on any clients dogs so far on the med HS
wondered if anyone else had
i know there are cheaper ones that are sharper or blunter which i can see making marks

PS not sure who cat stevens is , but we moslty sing mary poppins songs, when i walk 9 dogs lol
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
21,869 Posts
I stopped using a prong about 6 months or something like that. Similar to what Jennifer said, my dog would just pull through it whether dead or live ring.

It does make it easier to go anywhere, but one day I was rubbing his neck and there were lumps..turned out to be crusty festered lumps that you could pull hair and get a chunk of puss or whatever with it.

It wasn't from corrections,the collar was a large diameter HS.. just too much abrasion during any type of outings. I just use a flat leather now. Is there anyhing faster than a microwave ??
Do you use an e-collar?
They can very easily cause sores on a dogs neck if left on to long. NOT because of the electricity but just how tight they sometimes need to be.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,078 Posts
Just curious for those folks that use a pinch collar, how old was your dog when you first introduced the pinch collar, is 7 months to young?
As soon as a pinch fits, my dogs where it every time we train. in the begging, I tap the collar on the dogs neck while they are bitting. And tap, I just pull it enough to move it ever so little. I hope the dog will pair it with being in drive.

I use the pinch to clean up sits and downs. Like jeff said, I make sure I have trained it to be fast by offering rewards immediatly. And by immediate I mean I do not care if the dog is straight or even slow on the sit. I just reward when the butt hits the ground. a dog with good drive will catch on and start sitting faster. realizing the faster thier ass hits the ground the quicker the reward comes. but if the dog is still a bit slow. I will tap the collar as I give the command. once I see the sit get faster regularly. I will start to tap it after the dog has sat. You may ask why do I correct after the dog has preformed the behavior. I am not correcting bad behavior. I am trying to get the dog to beat the tap on the pinch. I learned that one from Terry Arnold. She was an AKC Obedience Champion back about 10 or more years ago. She wrote a book called "steppin up to success"....good OB book.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,078 Posts
i have never seen or heard of abbrasions from a prong before, i use them all the time at class on various breeds and temperments or dogs, i use med HS , rounded tips , i did have one time marks from a small prong as the tips are sharper and pickier , on a broken coat jack russel

anyone else heard of marks caused from a prong, not saying it didnt happen gerry or that it was misuse or anything just wondering if this happens often

So far my 6 month guy has only been on a flat for training , i recently put him on a e- collar to ensure recall , his recall was pretty great but there was times he would blow me off cuz something was more intereseting, i didnt want that to become a habit or option, so he wears it to ensure a recall but all other training is on a flat

I am going to go out on a limb here. I have seen Marks and abbrasions from a Pinch. and I mean this with all seriousness....It's generally not with new trainers or really experienced trainers. its with trainers whom know enough just to be dangerous. And for lack of experience and knowledge they just pull harder on the tab. Then when this does not work....Out comes the Electric. And then we have one more dog that either bites his handler, or says **** it and has trust issues till his dying day. Then comes the most entertaining part. The deillusional thinking from the handler that is was the dogs fault.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
21,869 Posts
I am going to go out on a limb here. I have seen Marks and abbrasions from a Pinch. and I mean this with all seriousness....It's generally not with new trainers or really experienced trainers. its with trainers whom know enough just to be dangerous. And for lack of experience and knowledge they just pull harder on the tab. Then when this does not work....Out comes the Electric. And then we have one more dog that either bites his handler, or says **** it and has trust issues till his dying day. Then comes the most entertaining part. The deillusional thinking from the handler that is was the dogs fault.

\\:D/ I think I'm gonna hang this one on my wall! ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
So what is "out of control?"
We put kids on drugs b/c parents don't want to learn how to be parents...OOC dogs...love to know more!
For me OOC meant being dragged through bush fences whenever the dog felt like it. Also meant not being able to correct him in a way that he would respect. I did try reasoning with him before that. Surprisingly, it didn't work...

Prong itself isn;t effective if placed incorrectly or, most important, if the leash is jerked in the wrong moment...same with any other means of physical correction, I guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
It all depends on the dog. I will use the correction collar that suits the dog.

Some of my dogs only needed a little pop with a flat collar as a young pup to walk on the leash. Some dogs have required more. I always try to start out with the most gentle and move up.

I tried the flat collar, moved to a martingale collar, and then to a prong for walking my current dog when he was about 5 months. I let him hit the end of the line himself, using Kohler's method for teaching heeling. A couple of times and the dog learned to walk nicely. I use to just use a chock collar but like the prong better now. It helps with a strong or stubborn dog to let them have the self correction.

I train the dog with motivation and really no longer have to use any correction but as a young pup and learning manners, he wore a prong collar. I associated corrections with the word "no" and use "un huh" when training, if he begins to move away from what I'm trying to get him to do. I also use some tones for right behavior that lets the dog know that he is doing good.

Your voice used as a tool is great as the dog becomes older. It seems like a lot of people forget about using their voice or communicating with the dog while training. I found that it is helpful to have calm voice when training. The dogs seem to respond better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,097 Posts
I've seen a prong mark my dogs neck. The prong was on the smallish side and fitted really well, she was on a long line and someone else did the correction. It was obviously to "hard" of a correction for the way this tool was set up. I've seen dogs have allergic reactions to any of the different types of metals that prongs are made out of as well. So that is always a possibility too.

As for what age to put a prong on pup others have answered it nicely here, though I'll say it is a personal decision based on the pup and what you want to do with it.

I always tell people that training a K9 any K9 it doesn't matter what collar you use any ways. You could use an aircraft cable as a choke or a sharpened prong or piece of spaghetti ...

What trains a dog is the handlers guidance nothing else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Thanks everyone, interesting thread. I've started using the prong as part of our training routine, but only part. I agree, tools won't matter if the training is sloppy or wrong so when I'm working on something new I make sure that I train with only the flat collar and reward (both food and toy) for proper behavior. The prong I use for heeling and correcting things I know he already has learned. It is just one tool in the drawer.
 
21 - 39 of 39 Posts
Top