Panosteitis

after reading the link connie posted, and a few other sites/threads. poor brix is gonna have to gut it out another 5 days b/f i take him to the vet.

he's a week short of 10 mo old., he's a GSD, he's heavy-boned (but he's NOT been on "large-breed puppy food" since 4 mo), and i'm evidently not enough of a hard-a$$ to elicit a "pain response" by pinching his long bones: he bites at me no matter where i pinch.... :roll:

i'll try that again tomorrow to ascertain his repsonse a bit more--it seemed to me to be more "pain" then "annoyance" in the long bone tonight: annoyance tends to be "mouthing" (ie, toenail trimming), pain more a bite. it'd be great if i had someone more experienced to restrain him so i could read his response better. 'course, a firm bite kinda tells me something, too...

to backward a bit: he showed barely noticeable signs of lameness on his right foreleg on monday past, it has increased daily (in spite of him being on cage-rest) every day, to the point of very noticeable lameness. he's putting approx. 40% weight on his foreleg. i haven't treated him w/pain relievers b/c i feel that pain is mother nature's way of saying "be easy"--let him listen to her and stay off it.

there's no obvious injury to shoulder/leg/pastern/pad, though he could've put a foot wrong and wrenched something. the problem with that theory is that it should be improving w/cage rest, and it's not.

input/ideas/suggestions??
and thanks,
ann

Bob Scott said:

One club member swears up, down and sideways that he gets a dog through Pano by putting them on a green bean diet. Not totally, but it makes up a good percentage of the meal.

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This is not "out there," Bob! I know (and have read) handlers and breeders who use green beans (such as canned with no sodium). It's not really directly associated with Pano; it's indirect. Vegetables (and green ones are the least caloric, in general) are substituted for part of the regular food to keep weight under control. (Growing dogs should not have a reduced-fat, reduced-protein diet; instead, the amounts of everything across the board is reduced if the pup is too heavy, and it's less miserable for the hungry dog if something very low in calories like green beans, broccoli, etc., helps fill out the dish.)

There is also a lot of talk, especially by one or two well-known Great Dane breeders, about Nzymes (supplement) for Pano. There's probably nothing wrong with it, as long as there's no soy allergy and as long as Vitamin A isn't duplicated in some other component of the diet in an amount to exceed the RDA by a lot. It's mainly a vitamin supplement. JMO.

About Brix, I'd be watching him, since he's getting worse even though he's on enforced rest. I'd be sure to rule out trauma (broken bone, etc.).

I think it's important to have him on a balanced diet (not supplementing with calcium, for example) and not to overfeed or feed anything high in protein or calcium. What food is he on?

You mentioned that he's big-boned. Is he a little heavy, too?

Bob Scott said:

Would there be additional benifit if they were fed raw? I'm guessing THEN they would have to be sent through the blender?

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Ha -- you have entered the land of BIG DISAGREEMENT!

Many people (experts and non-) maintain that raw but processed produce is best for dogs.

I lean toward cooking (like steaming or blanching) unless it's very young tender greens or ripe fruit. My own theory is that in the wild, dogs would eat those, but other produce would usually be in the form of partly-digested prey contents, and that maybe cooking is close to partly-digesting.

Others believe that processing makes it more like that.

Of course, cooking does destroy some enzymes and many water-soluble vitamins.

But I feed enough blueberries, young greens, occasional low-sugar fruits, etc., so I think I cover what is cooked out of other produce.

So there ya go. Sorry you asked? :lol:

The simple answer is yes, if it's raw, dogs can't digest produce with firm cell walls (beans, broccoli, etc.) unless it's processed first.

One of the factors that some researchers believe might contribute to the possibility of pano is calcium supplementation.

One thing I personally have never considered, panosteitis or not, is a calcium supplement. A dog's most important micronutrient ratio, IMO, is the calcium/phosphorous ratio. Oversimplifying, that would be the ratio of bones (calcium) to meat (phosphorous) in the dog's natural diet.

Since pano presents with abnormally dense bone area, I would want to hear a very good explanation of why extra calcium, a bone-building material, was warranted. (Good instinct, Ken.)

Is your dog's pano related to the growth spurts? (Pano in dogs and in children is often called "growing pains.")

Some people believe at the moment that low protein, low calcium diets may prevent this condition. I've never seen authoritative research to indicate this. Something that makes more sense to me is a balanced and normal diet with less food given. There are a few reasons for this: Dogs who grow slowly and steadily seem to have much lower pano occurences; dogs who have a little too much weight seem to be more prone to it.

As mentioned earlier, some reduce the diet, while keeping it balanced, and fill in with low-calorie, low-sugar produce to keep the dog from being too unhappy with the decreased amount.

It is, of course, self-limiting. At that age, your dog is approaching the usual 14-month (approximately) cutoff. That's not 100%, but I understand that it's pretty reliable.

I think the advice about limiting exercise during pano is probably good, because it's an ailment of inflammation. Inflammation isn't a good thing for any part of the system.

If your dog isn't already on Omega 3s in the form of salmon oil (plus Vitamin E), I'd start it. It won't have the same direct benefit the way it does for OA and other joint disease (and many other ailments), but it is a potent anti-inflammation agent with no downside, so it can be of some benefit.

If you are trying to choose pain meds, I can link you to info, if you want.

All JMO. I'm not a health professional.