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Don't guide dogs respond to stimulus? A car in the road means stop? Not wilful disobedience at all. It would be if it hadn't been trained to stop it's human from walking into traffic. Just responding to cues, right?

Wayne, I can't speak for Alice (Lord knows the woman can speak for herself) but some do not want a dog to have willful disobedience. There are many situations and jobs that do not allow for this. The dog does not get to pick and chose over whether or not to obey a given command. The command is given, the dog must obey. This is very important depending on the job the dog is tasked with. For guide dogs, yes, the dog must have some latitude with their job. For law enforcement canines there is less wiggle room. If the dog is sent to engage an individual, the dog MUST do that. This isn't a democracy. The dog doesn't get a vote.
 

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Don't guide dogs respond to stimulus? A car in the road means stop? Not wilful disobedience at all. It would be if it hadn't been trained to stop it's human from walking into traffic. Just responding to cues, right?
No Dave. Wilful disobedience is not intelligent disobedience.
But perhaps we should open thus discussion in a separate thread so as not to hijack Alice's thread any further.
 

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Discussion Starter · #423 ·
Alice, I respect my elders and take every opportunity to learn. Knowledge, no matter where it comes from, is power. I would, however, like to return the favour and share some of my own treasure trove.
Intelligent disobedience is the product of teaching a dog its job and then trusting your life to that well trained dog's good judgement and disobey if the situation warrants. Teaching the dog which situations to use that judgement is the tricky and FUN part...
For example, say I ask ( not command ) Harley "Graudaus" to cross a street. I say ask because if there is a car coming that would run us over, Harley will NOT move off of that kerb. Most times, he will body block me as well. That's just one example of a dog using intelligent disobedience to preserve the life of itself and it's owner.
Each dog venue demands its own form of training. This sort of training suits you and your dog for the programme that you are training for and I respect that. For me, this kind of training is not anything I would ever consider because it is of no use to me or the dog in any way. The dog thinking doesn't even figure into things. I say, he does, end off...

Willfull or intelligent disobediance has no place in bitesports or training for civil work. ;)
 

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Each dog venue demands its own form of training. This sort of training suits you and your dog for the programme that you are training for and I respect that. For me, this kind of training is not anything I would ever consider because it is of no use to me or the dog in any way. The dog thinking doesn't even figure into things. I say, he does, end off...

Willfull or intelligent disobediance has no place in bitesports or training for civil work. ;)
Well said Ma'am.
To each their own.
If I ever decide to tackle bitesports I will definitely leave disobedience of any kind out of the training programme.
 

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Discussion Starter · #426 ·
Robbie II Update!

First training day of terrain for Robbie at the Berry II offspring training day in Heeze, Netherlands.

Robbie was more than ready for his first big day and did us as well as his father and siblings well proud. Youngest dog there at 14 months which was a bit strange to see but he did great! Was even more mature then expected...

No video, sorry. A few shots of him working tho. ;)

(BTW, not a peep on the bite :razz: )









 

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Robbie II Update!

First training day of terrain for Robbie at the Berry II offspring training day in Heeze, Netherlands.

Robbie was more than ready for his first big day and did us as well as his father and siblings well proud. Youngest dog there at 14 months which was a bit strange to see but he did great! Was even more mature then expected...

No video, sorry. A few shots of him working tho. ;)

(BTW, not a peep on the bite :razz: )










I know why you didnt post a video... you didnt want us to hear his distress sounds while on the bite... Your dog did not fly into the bite...That picture is misleading... He's flying because you threw him at the decoy... LOL (joking).


Pics look great. Would love to see a video!
 

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Robbie II Update!

First training day of terrain for Robbie at the Berry II offspring training day in Heeze, Netherlands.

Robbie was more than ready for his first big day and did us as well as his father and siblings well proud. Youngest dog there at 14 months which was a bit strange to see but he did great! Was even more mature then expected...

No video, sorry. A few shots of him working tho. ;)

(BTW, not a peep on the bite :razz: )









Robbie II Update!

First training day of terrain for Robbie at the Berry II offspring training day in Heeze, Netherlands.

Robbie was more than ready for his first big day and did us as well as his father and siblings well proud. Youngest dog there at 14 months which was a bit strange to see but he did great! Was even more mature then expected...

No video, sorry. A few shots of him working tho. ;)

(BTW, not a peep on the bite :razz: )



nice picture







 
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