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Discussion Starter · #402 ·
I have ZERO experience in bitework training, so pardon my question. Why was the bald helper smacking Robbie?
Part desensitization and part building up of presure on the dog to see how he reacts. During the stick/face attack (last video post made) you will see that he gets a full body stick hit over his back, right before he makes the bite. If you do not train for that there would be a lot of dogs that would come of the bite in confusement or even fear over being hit for no specific reason. So you train for that. Also, after he is trained he might get sold in to Lawenforcment to work the streets in which case he will encounter getting hurt or hit or kicked in the line of duty. He should expect this and not come of the bite but feel enticed to turn that pain into anger and repay the person kicking or hitting him with his teeth.

If you do not train for these events and wait to the last minute or maybe even trial for him to experiance a stickhit, or the streets, then he will probably come of the bite and decide to leave his trainer/handler to pick up the pieces. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #405 ·
congrats Alice ... should be a powerhouse and much goodness there.
Have to say that up to now he has been a pleasure to work with even tho he does actually make you WORK for everything. No free rides with this dog :lol: he's quite short tempered but enjoys himself so much on the field and in anything he does that its great fun to see him do something. There is not one exercise that he doesn't enjoy doing which makes working him a lot of fun.
 

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Alice, first of all, it was a pleasure and honour watching Robbie II go from baby to yearling.
My dog training experience is in training dogs to herd dairy cattle on my family's farm and Service Dogs, Guidework specifically. I have been a Guide Dog Owner for fourteen years. My first three guides were school trained. I have trained three guides. Harley, my 4 year old American White Shepherd + Labrador cross. Sky, a 4 year old GSD and Storm a 3.5 year old GSD + Husky cross. Storm and Sky gujde friends of mine. The pups were taught who was boss, but they, as all Guide Dogs are, were not taught blind ( pun intended ) robotic obedience, Instead, I taught them intelligent disobedience. I say this, not as a criticism to how you train your pups and your expectations for your pups, but to let you know where I come from viewpoint wise. I use a mix of marker training and compulsive.


 

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Discussion Starter · #410 ·
Alice, first of all, it was a pleasure and honour watching Robbie II go from baby to yearling.
My dog training experience is in training dogs to herd dairy cattle on my family's farm and Service Dogs, Guidework specifically. I have been a Guide Dog Owner for fourteen years. My first three guides were school trained. I have trained three guides. Harley, my 4 year old American White Shepherd + Labrador cross. Sky, a 4 year old GSD and Storm a 3.5 year old GSD + Husky cross. Storm and Sky gujde friends of mine. The pups were taught who was boss, but they, as all Guide Dogs are, were not taught blind ( pun intended ) robotic obedience, Instead, I taught them intelligent disobedience. I say this, not as a criticism to how you train your pups and your expectations for your pups, but to let you know where I come from viewpoint wise. I use a mix of marker training and compulsive.



I have respect for all forms of training even tho I might not be inclined to use them myself ;)

I am a trainer that will use what I see in a pup as it grows up. I look for things that it shows a natural ability in and try to extend that with play as long as possible. The more that is learned in play the easier my task will be as the dog grows up. I do not use marker or clicker training and do not rewards with treats or toys since thats just not the person I am. I tend to use compulsion since it works best for me and the type of dogs that I work with. I am, or atleast that is what I feel, a very patient trainer, as is my husband. I can take a very long time to teach a dog one exercise and be quite happy about having to spend that time. That same patience goes out the window the moment I see the dog gets the idea and knows what is expected of it. I don't take no for an answer and am not softhearted or handed for that matter. Action, reaction. I do not ask my dogs to work for me, I demand and they will follow my fules without exception or suffer the consequences. I am a very black and white trainer with simple basic rules that I will not stretch or deviate from. Once I set up a programme in my head for the dog I will stick to it... I guess I'm stuborn like that but it has paid off in the last 20+ years ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #413 ·
No strange sounds when on pressure...!? Something is wrong with a dog Alice!:)
Een echte serious hond. En mooi ook. Het lijkt op een wolf.
Gefeliciteerd Alice.

Still on leg bite after stick attack..? It will change or not?
Dank je, Alan ;) Yup he is a very serious dog in anything he does. Does his bloodline, and owner well proud!

Yep, rules changed for PH1, all first attacks are on the arm again and the second attack may be arm or leg. Since the rules change per Oktober 1st and we only heard about it 4 months ago we were already well allong in putting Robbie on the leg so we decided to let the second attack stay on the leg and only change the attack on the throw attack to the back of the arm. PH1 is 435 points now since they also changed the fake attack. Took out the part for "no biting" which makes sense since if the dog does bite you lose the entire exercise anyway so why judge the dog on the no biting...
 

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Discussion Starter · #417 ·
I'll be there from the 31st of July through the 3rd of August.

Do you have trials around that time?
Nope, summer trials are early July till half July. Next trial season starts in Oktober. Our club has the Fall trial again this year on Oktober 4th, and maybe Oktober 2nd as well, depending on the amount of people trialing. Just checked but not much happening in our area, demonstration wise...
 

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Nope, summer trials are early July till half July. Next trial season starts in Oktober. Our club has the Fall trial again this year on Oktober 4th, and maybe Oktober 2nd as well, depending on the amount of people trialing. Just checked but not much happening in our area, demonstration wise...

There's a GSD practice day in Didam, mid August... but I wont be able to make it.

I'll be back in October :)
 

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I have respect for all forms of training even tho I might not be inclined to use them myself ;)

I am a trainer that will use what I see in a pup as it grows up. I look for things that it shows a natural ability in and try to extend that with play as long as possible. The more that is learned in play the easier my task will be as the dog grows up. I do not use marker or clicker training and do not rewards with treats or toys since thats just not the person I am. I tend to use compulsion since it works best for me and the type of dogs that I work with. I am, or atleast that is what I feel, a very patient trainer, as is my husband. I can take a very long time to teach a dog one exercise and be quite happy about having to spend that time. That same patience goes out the window the moment I see the dog gets the idea and knows what is expected of it. I don't take no for an answer and am not softhearted or handed for that matter. Action, reaction. I do not ask my dogs to work for me, I demand and they will follow my fules without exception or suffer the consequences. I am a very black and white trainer with simple basic rules that I will not stretch or deviate from. Once I set up a programme in my head for the dog I will stick to it... I guess I'm stuborn like that but it has paid off in the last 20+ years ;)
Alice, I respect my elders and take every opportunity to learn. Knowledge, no matter where it comes from, is power. I would, however, like to return the favour and share some of my own treasure trove.
Intelligent disobedience is the product of teaching a dog its job and then trusting your life to that well trained dog's good judgement and disobey if the situation warrants. Teaching the dog which situations to use that judgement is the tricky and FUN part...
For example, say I ask ( not command ) Harley "Graudaus" to cross a street. I say ask because if there is a car coming that would run us over, Harley will NOT move off of that kerb. Most times, he will body block me as well. That's just one example of a dog using intelligent disobedience to preserve the life of itself and it's owner.
 

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Wayne, I can't speak for Alice (Lord knows the woman can speak for herself) but some do not want a dog to have willful disobedience. There are many situations and jobs that do not allow for this. The dog does not get to pick and chose over whether or not to obey a given command. The command is given, the dog must obey. This is very important depending on the job the dog is tasked with. For guide dogs, yes, the dog must have some latitude with their job. For law enforcement canines there is less wiggle room. If the dog is sent to engage an individual, the dog MUST do that. This isn't a democracy. The dog doesn't get a vote.
 
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