Working Dog Forums banner
1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
Malinois
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Any opinions on the following crossbreeds
Bred using arteficial insemination with a large breed female and smaller breed male

-APBT gamebred x caucasian shepherd (working line)
-Patterdale (working line) x Fila Brasileiro (working line)
-Mixes with dogs these combinations and KNPV bloodline Malinois or Canarian bloodline Presa Canario.

How would the mixes do as personal protection or guard dog??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Any opinions on the following crossbreeds
Bred using arteficial insemination with a large breed female and smaller breed male

-APBT gamebred x caucasian shepherd (working line)
-Patterdale (working line) x Fila Brasileiro (working line)
-Mixes with dogs these combinations and KNPV bloodline Malinois or Canarian bloodline Presa Canario.

How would the mixes do as personal protection or guard dog??
Dogs function through instincts inherited from wolfs (protect teritory, protect pack ,stalk prey, chase ,kill ,dismember and feed). We have shaped breeds by manipulating these instincts- toning some down and exaggerating the others according to our needs. In a way like cars have engine that drives them and brakes with which we control the engine.
Mixing breeds with similar traits will give predictable results, while mixing dogs with oposite traits might give you race car with faulty brakes.
Caucassians are livestock guardians-very human agressive, territorial, not very trainable or biddable. On the other side they have low hunting instict and are relatively indifferent to environmental stimulation outside its territory or in non threatening situations.
Pit bull is oposite to that. Not overly bound to its territory, not too human agressive , strong chase -pounce instinct and exagerrated kill drive.
You could get dogs that are liability for unprovoked human attacks with strong kill instict factor.
Same with other combination. Fila does have hunt drive but kill drive has been removed.
KNPV Mals ang Dutchies have already been outcrossed with Pitbulls and other breeds and absorbed what they had to offer to a great extent.
You could possibly get good results if you had high quality specimens of all these breeds, produce number of litters and cull everything you dont like.
 

·
Registered
Malinois
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Dogs function through instincts inherited from wolfs (protect teritory, protect pack ,stalk prey, chase ,kill ,dismember and feed). We have shaped breeds by manipulating these instincts- toning some down and exaggerating the others according to our needs. In a way like cars have engine that drives them and brakes with which we control the engine.
Mixing breeds with similar traits will give predictable results, while mixing dogs with oposite traits might give you race car with faulty brakes.
Caucassians are livestock guardians-very human agressive, territorial, not very trainable or biddable. On the other side they have low hunting instict and are relatively indifferent to environmental stimulation outside its territory or in non threatening situations.
Pit bull is oposite to that. Not overly bound to its territory, not too human agressive , strong chase -pounce instinct and exagerrated kill drive.
You could get dogs that are liability for unprovoked human attacks with strong kill instict factor.
Same with other combination. Fila does have hunt drive but kill drive has been removed.
KNPV Mals ang Dutchies have already been outcrossed with Pitbulls and other breeds and absorbed what they had to offer to a great extent.
You could possibly get good results if you had high quality specimens of all these breeds, produce number of litters and cull everything you dont like.
Couldn't agree more,
Not all the pups would have the desired traits, they might have undesired traits from both breeds, so the pick from the litter is important.
And of course I would go for the best specimens of the breed.😉
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
My experience with Personal Protection Dogs says its less about the breeds than the individual dogs chosen.

With cross breeding, yes there can be a very wide range of diversity in traits displayed, but as long as selection for desired traits are consistent across breeds, Those traits at least should attain reliability, though NOT predictability or consistency in their manifestation.

Culling can be lessened if the claim of specific trait selection can be substantiated, and is then demonstrated reliable.
Learning to 'read' and assess pups accurately is then aimed more at matching pups to homes suitable, based on the other traits in evidence to buyers experience and needs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
My experience with Personal Protection Dogs says its less about the breeds than the individual dogs chosen.

With cross breeding, yes there can be a very wide range of diversity in traits displayed, but as long as selection for desired traits are consistent across breeds, Those traits at least should attain reliability, though NOT predictability or consistency in their manifestation.

Culling can be lessened if the claim of specific trait selection can be substantiated, and is then demonstrated reliable.
Learning to 'read' and assess pups accurately is then aimed more at matching pups to homes suitable, based on the other traits in evidence to buyers experience and needs.
Any opinions on the following crossbreeds
Bred using arteficial insemination with a large breed female and smaller breed male

-APBT gamebred x caucasian shepherd (working line)
-Patterdale (working line) x Fila Brasileiro (working line)
-Mixes with dogs these combinations and KNPV bloodline Malinois or Canarian bloodline Presa Canario.

How would the mixes do as personal protection or guard dog??
A guard dog and a PP have very different traits.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I have been breeding hybrid home defense/area exclusion dogs for years. originaly to keep mmyself in dogs of a quality and fierceness that I couldn't afford to buy, and progressing to desireing to improve said dogs thru stratigeic cross breedoing , thentesting/selection followed by inbreeding to fix traits. I find that you can find suitable breeding material by takin in easy biting or dominant confident alpha types whose owners couldn't control them. In those days I'd soon find out if the dog would fight beside me, or engage tresspassers/thieves.
I was inspired by by the men who made the dogo , and the presa , and guys who built the co..
I always thought dogs should be aloyt more formidable and aggressive than what I had seen( !`and my dad had gsds, my aunt had dobys).. my early ideas involved "perfectt breed " mixs , and quick solutions generatig final product in f1..
as it turned out, you can also use the practical method outlined above.
I think there's pups on hoobly that's f1 cross co x Camelot working pit if your looking totry themixthe mix .
if i were closer geographically I'd give one a chance to earn a place in thepack.
I have inmycurrent young adults I have a mix of apbt(heavy eli), blue heeler, greatdane , and neo; and I would be hard pressed to find better dogs to exclude strangers from my land. After producing this crop by half sibling inbreeding i wanted new blood that wouldn't water down there temperment. temperament. for the first time in fifteen years i purchased a dog, a 6 month old presa canario(rucaden/ ironbull/linea m).i also cosidered a abull and a fila but didn't want to import one, and hard confisent and healthy filas are only produced by a handfuhandful of breadersdomestic)y. In the end the presas physique offered more survivability to combas t traumas, and I went with that.

I want to see that paterdale x fila....talk about temperament !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
A guard dog and a PP have very different traits.
Could you expand on that?

I don't see the two as mutually exclusive in any way, though situation/requirements will vary and dogs used exclusively for guard duties may have little other expectation placed in them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Could you expand on that?

I don't see the two as mutually exclusive in any way, though situation/requirements will vary and dogs used exclusively for guard duties may have little other expectation placed in them.
A guard dog/perimeter dog/property protection dog does not need the discernment that a PP dog needs. They typically do their job when the handler is not present. They basically need high aggression and good enough nerves to fight a person. A PP needs to be social enough that he can safely be around other people, even off leash and remain neutral unless commanded to bite or recognized a true threat and reacts, while still having aggression and very good nerves. To me two very different type of dogs with really good PP dogs having many more desirable traits than a guard dog. I see both having limited utility due to being neutralized by a gun. A PP dog might buy you a little time to arm yourself if you’re not armed. I believe robotic “dogs” that are armed and can be remotely activated to fire will replace many military/police dogs except for scent work, at least for a while.
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top