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Maybe something scientific around collar correction force...

774 Views 20 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  Bob Scott
I've developed an unhealthy obsession with types of collars and the nature of the corrections they administer. I think everybody (whether they use chokes or not) uses that German study about the autopsied GSDs and the relative neck damage of choked dogs versus prong dogs...I have never seen a scientific interpretation of that study, only a random anedotal reference, which bugs me to no end. I hate ambiguity on scientific claims.

Moreover, I am not a fan of dead ring prong corrections because I absolutely believe that a prong correction on the live and dead rings is a different type of correction entirely...much more force on the neck, and a different sensation for the dog, which generally undermines the point of a prong collar (to me, anyways...which is to give a correction with less lateral force [but more constrictive force] which mimics the correction a dog got from mom as a puppy).

So what to do? Luckily I work around technologists way smarter than me. I was sharing this with a guy this morning--my unhealthy irritation with getting real data around collar and prong differences--and gave him corrections to prove my point (which I have to admit amused me greatly). He works a lot on shock (like, instantaneous force generated from things being dropped on floors, etc.) I think he can help me.

Hopefully, and shortly, we're gonna get a piece of PVC or something and attach a few accelerometers on th end of it (approximate a dog's neck). I'll attach (in different tests) typical choke, fursaver, dead prong, and live prong to a leash attached to a small weight which will be dropped at least ten times from a consistent height. We'll measure the acceleration and extrapolate force generated, I'll analyze the results statistically.

I'm not sure how we'll measure constrictive force yet (e.g., live prong relative force around the neck). But again, I work with people smarter than me. :lol: I create technical problems they solve (kind of my job description, now that I think about it).

So perhaps this will work and we'll get some quantitative data to back up our own unchangeable opinions :lol:. For now, any thoughts on how to do this test consistently, improve it, etc. would be appreciated.
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Connie Sutherland said:
The comments make sense to me, but it bugs me too that the study itself seems not to have been done.
Intuitively, I think it's easy to see corrective differences...I was actually surprised at the correction I gave myself yesterday with the new fursaver I got, those big links hit bone hard...but there's a lot of nuance to consider. I think we'll be okay (assuming we do this) measuring straight force generated. The compressive force and effects of a live pinch, around the neck itself, will be harder to capture. The SUM of the force around the neck on a live pinch should be the difference of the sum of the lateral force between dead and live (overall force will be conserved) but that actually points of force on the prong...well, my head hurts so I'll stop. :lol:
Jerry Lyda said:
Good for you Woody. Can't wait to see how this turns out.
We'll see. This is some midnight requisitions stuff, definitely not getting direction from my mgmt to do this study. :wink: If nothing else I got to give someone a prong correction for free already. :lol:
Connie Sutherland said:
Woody Taylor said:
....If nothing else I got to give someone a prong correction for free already. :lol:
Ah .... benefits already!
Not as good as my previously-described "neck blood pressure experiment" in high school, but I'm corporate now. I didn't sell out, I bought in.
Jeff Oehlsen said:
Of course you could just learn how to train a dog instead of wasting time with this. :twisted:
Getting a lot of sun on that tin shanty out in the backwoods these days, huh? :twisted:
So, we hooked up the accelerometer today, and we're trying to make the experiment consistent and repeatable (I will have a control along with the collar types for comparison). My wrist is neither consistent nor repeatable...having two ball peen hammers on a 4-foot lead dead-drop down and yank a nylon choke or fur saver to generate about 60 G's of shock on my wrist is hard to maintain consistently...arms get tired, particularly when they think about the prong portion of the test.

So we need a new neck. The neck has to support nylon choke, fur saver, prong on live ring (i.e., it has to support that "give").

Right now I'm leaning towards PVC piping with a nice fat steak wrapped around it. Or something like that.

Science marches on, please let me know your thoughts.
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