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If someone who didn't know working dogs very well were to ask you why a malinois was more difficult to live with than a hyper border collie, what would you tell them? How would you compare the levels of hyperness?
Malinois/Dutchie vs. Border Collie
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Hyperactivity is not where the difference is at...
Comparing the best of one to the best of the other...Malinois in the wrong hands can be quite dangerous...Border Collies, not. One is a BB Gun and the other is an MP5. In the wrong hands...there is a hair trigger and no safety on both. Which one would you rather get hit with?
Comparing the best of one to the best of the other...Malinois in the wrong hands can be quite dangerous...Border Collies, not. One is a BB Gun and the other is an MP5. In the wrong hands...there is a hair trigger and no safety on both. Which one would you rather get hit with?
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I don´t know much about the border, but I know some people get crazy about the natural staring, and herding of workingline borders if they aren´t worked.
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When I was looking at dutch shepherd puppies I was trying to explain their level of drive/hyperactivity to a friend of mine who has a border collie, but I didn't really know what to tell them, now that I've had her for 3+ months I don't think she's any more hyper than their border collie, but I really like your (accurate) analogy of a BB Gun vs. MP5 :lol: :lol: I told one of my friends about that, he's ex-army special forces so I figured he'd get a kick out of that too!
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My female GSD( 2 3/4 yrs old) has extreme drives....she is as drivey as most mals & dutchies. She screams from the minute she gets into the truck with the anticipation of 'working'. If not WORKED at least a couple of times a day....plus some additional time in the yard to run.....she is almost too much to live with (at least in the house) ....she paces, whines, barkes etc. She is still often restless, but at lest will settle down a fair amout of the time after enough work & play time. You could not live in the house with a dog that is much higher in drive than she is, at least I couldn't & I can tolerate quite a bit. There are members of this board that can vouch for the drives of this female & how she screams most of the time in the truck when we are training & can hear me coming from well more than a 1/4 mile away when coming to the training field. :lol: :lol:
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QUOTE ANDRES: "Malinois in the wrong hands can be quite dangerous...Border Collies, not" END QUOTE
I disagree. I've seen several border collies that were quite dangerous because they'd not been properly raised/worked. For example, an accountant at my dad's firm almost lost her granddaughter to the family border collie who, although social and friendly, tried to bite the little girl's face off one day. I also had a friend in Indiana whose farm border collie had to be put in a crate in the presence of children. It wanted to herd them, and when they wouldn't comply, it would bite them. Some of the bites drew blood.
I think strong working border collies (especially those that really herd sheep for a living) can be as difficult as a Malinois. Of course, I'm not a collie expert, so perhaps someone who is can give us more insight.
I disagree. I've seen several border collies that were quite dangerous because they'd not been properly raised/worked. For example, an accountant at my dad's firm almost lost her granddaughter to the family border collie who, although social and friendly, tried to bite the little girl's face off one day. I also had a friend in Indiana whose farm border collie had to be put in a crate in the presence of children. It wanted to herd them, and when they wouldn't comply, it would bite them. Some of the bites drew blood.
I think strong working border collies (especially those that really herd sheep for a living) can be as difficult as a Malinois. Of course, I'm not a collie expert, so perhaps someone who is can give us more insight.
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There are a lot of Border Collies where I live (lots of livestock and farms out here) and lots of irrisponsible breeding. Thus, border collies end up mauling all kinds of kids out here. So I don't think they are any less dangerous per se. It may just be that they are very common out here so they easily end up with people who just throw them out back and don't do anything with them.
Our neighbors had 2 when I was growing up and I was always told to stay away from their dogs. One of their adult sons got bit pretty badly and then one of their grandkids got chewed up on his face and had to get stiches and surgery....so I wouldn't say they aren't danerous either.
Our neighbors had 2 when I was growing up and I was always told to stay away from their dogs. One of their adult sons got bit pretty badly and then one of their grandkids got chewed up on his face and had to get stiches and surgery....so I wouldn't say they aren't danerous either.
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Interesting that you make the comparison, Mike. Since most people have heard of neither breed and when they ask me what Zoso is since he's "so well trained" (I don't know about "well trained," just a lot of training), I tell them that Malinois are like combining a working German shepherd with a working border collie. It's also rather amusing since I see people on the walking and hiking trails with their unruly dogs who know few if any manners and they see my lovely red dog who is somewhat decently trained to the average person. These same people say "Oooh, I want one of those!" I tell them I wouldn't wish the average Malinois on all but my worst enemies. 
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mal/ dutchie vs border collies
Sorry, somehow the rest of my post didn't get in there....that's what I get for not looking at it & just submitting it...it was late & I was tired .....anyway, I have several friends that have had working line border collies, & they are just as high drive & intense as any extreme drive working dog. They are very quick to react & are no nonsence. The ones that I am referring to were at a barn where I kept my horse. They would get into the horse fields & heard the horses just for fun. They would use their 'eye' to try to control the horses. The horses that were lower on the pecking order used to relent to them, but some of the herd leader horses, like mine, would challenge them. They would chase him & then he would turn around & chase them. It was pretty funny to watch. These dogs seemed to be safe around the people & kids & other dogs that freequented the barn & home of my friend's. Although, that may have been partially due to the fact that they got tons of erercise each day. But I could see where without an outlet for them that there could be the potential for a problem. I think that an equally intense & drivey mal or dutchy or GSD could be just as much of a problem without suffecient outlets for their energy. My female is exteme drive, but is not a terribly intense dog, my male on the other hand is very intense but is very high drive but not the exteme drive that my female posesses. I think that if he had her extreme drives & was as reactive as she is...it would be a problem. He is just that bit lower key that makes him a relatively safe dog. IMO
Sorry, somehow the rest of my post didn't get in there....that's what I get for not looking at it & just submitting it...it was late & I was tired .....anyway, I have several friends that have had working line border collies, & they are just as high drive & intense as any extreme drive working dog. They are very quick to react & are no nonsence. The ones that I am referring to were at a barn where I kept my horse. They would get into the horse fields & heard the horses just for fun. They would use their 'eye' to try to control the horses. The horses that were lower on the pecking order used to relent to them, but some of the herd leader horses, like mine, would challenge them. They would chase him & then he would turn around & chase them. It was pretty funny to watch. These dogs seemed to be safe around the people & kids & other dogs that freequented the barn & home of my friend's. Although, that may have been partially due to the fact that they got tons of erercise each day. But I could see where without an outlet for them that there could be the potential for a problem. I think that an equally intense & drivey mal or dutchy or GSD could be just as much of a problem without suffecient outlets for their energy. My female is exteme drive, but is not a terribly intense dog, my male on the other hand is very intense but is very high drive but not the exteme drive that my female posesses. I think that if he had her extreme drives & was as reactive as she is...it would be a problem. He is just that bit lower key that makes him a relatively safe dog. IMO
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All have to remember there are the same problems with BCs as there are with GSDs, BC just aren't as opinionated (loudmouths) like us GSD people (don't hit me). :twisted:
But seriously, if you compare a showline BC to a malinois (who don't have a serious problem YET), then yes, the BB gun vs M80 is a VERY good term. But what people REALLY need to be told is the DIFFERENCE in the drives. Yes, BCs (herding line) can have EXTREME drives, and aren't for the typical dog owner (IMO), but these drives aren't like a Mali's.
Since I've worked with the extreme drive dogs with both breeds, to compare apples to oranges, I would have to say Malinois would be more dangerous in the wrong hands than a BC. Yes, I've seen a BC rip a man's face wide open from eye to jaw. BCs are destructive, yes. But physically compare the two dogs and you can tell the Malinois, by sheer virtue of larger size and weight (as well as some having incredibly longer teeth) they are just more potentially destructive.
But seriously, if you compare a showline BC to a malinois (who don't have a serious problem YET), then yes, the BB gun vs M80 is a VERY good term. But what people REALLY need to be told is the DIFFERENCE in the drives. Yes, BCs (herding line) can have EXTREME drives, and aren't for the typical dog owner (IMO), but these drives aren't like a Mali's.
Since I've worked with the extreme drive dogs with both breeds, to compare apples to oranges, I would have to say Malinois would be more dangerous in the wrong hands than a BC. Yes, I've seen a BC rip a man's face wide open from eye to jaw. BCs are destructive, yes. But physically compare the two dogs and you can tell the Malinois, by sheer virtue of larger size and weight (as well as some having incredibly longer teeth) they are just more potentially destructive.
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I had a friend who bred Border Collies & did BC Rescue. As another poster mentioned, the "eye" & herding mentality can be very unnerving. The really good ones all seem to have OCD! My firend use to come home form work & put an x-pen around her easy chair so she could relax for a few minutes without a zillion balls & toys being dropped on her lap over & over & over. :roll:
She did competitive sheep herding, agility & flyball with all her dogs. They did everything with (shall we say) GUSTO!
She did competitive sheep herding, agility & flyball with all her dogs. They did everything with (shall we say) GUSTO!
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If I pet my friends border collie she eats it up, but as soon as I stop petting her n start to put my hand down on my lap, somehow she manages to get her head back under my hand before it hits my lap to insist on continued petting :lol:
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