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It's pretty tough to change once the dog finds a preferred target. They will always gravitate towards that target. The only thing you can do is back tie the dog on a static line and do what Mark Keating calls a 'heel creep' (which is viewable on his Leerburg DVD) which is a slow movement into the dog while only presenting the target between the knee and ankle by having the lower part of the leg closer to the dog as you creep in. If the dog keeps trying to go up you back off and frustrate the dog and then start the 'heel creep' while only presenting that target again, once she takes it you have a dog party and let the dog enjoy the bite. If the dog manages to get the higher target you don't let the bite go on for very long, (note) never correct for biting a non preferred target just don't let her enjoy the bite as long as she would if she got the preferred target. Just out the dog and start over.

Once she progresses with that then you could start to use a barrel or large cone with a Bungee or slow drag the dog around the cone. Basically as the dog comes around the cone the training decoy only presents the part between the knee and ankle. Here is a well executed slow drag and what the presentation should look like even though this dog still went a little high. http://youtu.be/lyUGf9Lr2pQ
 

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Thanks Geoff! so between the knee and ankle is the way forward then.
It is the preferred target for pivots for French Ring. The movement that my friend was doing in the video is an exaggerated way of presenting it, even so the dog was still a bit to high.

tip: The back tie needs to be really low so the dog has a harder time to come up when you do the 'heel creep'. There isn't a lot of margin for error as you move in, any dog while be much faster than any human. So if the dog doesn't take the right target and you move in that much closer the dog if the target is presented incorrectly the dog will gravitate towards the higher target.

We are trying to get a green Adult Malinois that started bite work late in my club to target lower and it has been a real pain in the arse. Worse is that in trying to get him to push he will try to regrip but change his grip he has already crunched a couple hands behind the leg sleeve. We are actually going to go back to a wedge for him for awhile and see if that improves his munchycrunchihandiness.
 

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if a dog is truly digging and turning they should bite lower. I think a dog should bite straight inline with their back. If it is a tall dog up to your thigh its a bit silly to try and make it bite below the knee. Also if its a short dog and is jumping for a bite in the thigh its piss poor also. I think a few dogs I have seen bite in the thigh get dirty and bite not so good up there. Lots of times they use their legs to hold on also. In line with the back and you wont go wrong.
 

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Your dog is a about a 55 lb female right Matt? Just keep trying to get her between the knee and ankle in training. If you make it to trial with her you just want her to bite the first thing she can and hang on.

Down the road all targets, and then secondary targets and opposition counter targets need to be shown to the dog for French Ringsport any ways. The bite work training in Ringsport never ends, so don't get to hung up on a specific target. Whatever the dog gets is good but there is better targets to gravitate too especially when the dog's Ring bite work foundation is in it's infancy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Your dog is a about a 55 lb female right Matt? Just keep trying to get her between the knee and ankle in training. If you make it to trial with her you just want her to bite the first thing she can and hang on.

Down the road all targets, and then secondary targets and opposition counter targets need to be shown to the dog for French Ringsport any ways. The bite work training in Ringsport never ends, so don't get to hung up on a specific target. Whatever the dog gets is good but there is better targets to gravitate too especially when the dog's Ring bite work foundation is in it's infancy.
Yes that's right.
Thanks dude :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I prefer between the knee and the ankle. But surely under the knee. And I think you must learn the dog to turn his head so he can bite good. I don't like to see dogs biting the lower body and don't turn their head.
Thanks for the reply, she turns her head naturally, I didn't have to teach it.
 

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can i ask the pathetic question of why the thigh is a bad selection?
is it just bad for organized sport or is it more dangerous for the dog?
there was a post here not too long ago about K9s-only competition in which one of the dogs bit the groin of the decoy because he had learned it wrestling down a suspect in a closet. in desperation he had latched onto the groin, and it had been so successful that the dog incorporated it into his regular repertoire...that had sounded awesome to me.
 

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can i ask the pathetic question of why the thigh is a bad selection?
is it just bad for organized sport or is it more dangerous for the dog?
there was a post here not too long ago about K9s-only competition in which one of the dogs bit the groin of the decoy because he had learned it wrestling down a suspect in a closet. in desperation he had latched onto the groin, and it had been so successful that the dog incorporated it into his regular repertoire...that had sounded awesome to me.
It's not a bad selection but the OP had stated he was using a leg sleeve so they don't offer decent upper thigh protection for the decoy. Hence his concern in asking what the target should be.

In French Ring the sport is about metres even millimetres so you want the dog to strike the target which is easiest to get 'which is the none moving one' where in 90% of the time is the planted or 'pivot' leg. One of my first mentors explained it to me like imagining you are on a run away train going down a mountain the only thing that will save your life is grabbing that pole at the side of the track. That's what it is like for the dog on this long facing attacks they are in excess of 50kmh in many cases on their entries. That's why it is important to show the dog to strike the non moving leg eyes out with their heads inline with their back. Most Malinois are like 55-70lbs and depending on the size of the decoy puts their heads below the knee.

In my experience with using leg sleeves you teach those targets first, as it is good foundation for the above scenario. Plus it is a lot easier to teach an older dog to go up than to teach an older dog to bite lower.
 

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Most dogs that bite thighs are jumping for the bite. They also dont turn their heads well or change leads. This is proven by dogs that bite low on one leg and high on the other. It also forces a little dog to bite up. Lots of times they start to hang on to the decoy with their legs. I personally do not like this. It makes the bite suffer. Still depends on the size of the dog.
 
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