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I'm pulling Gregg's great comments on KPNV injuries into this thread...chat on!

Gregg Tawney said:
If you remove the "courage" test in Sch. then you are watering down an already watered down sport. I for one would hate to see that.

I would be interested in hearing about any dogs that are injured in KNPV. A sport that is ALOT tougher in the frontal attack then any other in the world....and produces the toughest dogs in the world.....just my opinioin of course. 8) Those of you that have seen it know that there is little give by the decoy upon the entry of the dog. You here a loud "thud" and maybe the decoy's grunt as he is slammed by a dog.......it is a beautiful thing!!!!!!!

It is my understanding that they did away with the upper body bites on the bike due to decoy injuries as opposed to dog injuries. A competetor stated that they put the docoy's safety above the dog's. That is a fundamental difference in thinking then I have seen here in the U.S..
 

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I've been told there are several dogs a year that are killed during KNPV titling (or maybe training??) from neck injuries due to jamming their necks on the decoy.

I have a great deal of respect for both KNPV and the dogs who can compete in it... but I wouldn't be willing to risk serious injury or death to my own personal dogs just to compete in a sport, it just doesn't seem worth it at that point.... it takes "doing something fun with your dog" to a "your dog is just an object/posession" and that's simply not how I think about them and hope I never will.
 

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After looking at some of the videos i was wondering about the "jamming" on the long bite, what's that for? I'm wondering what the thinking is behind that particular kind of stonewalling. Can some of the people who participate in knvp explain it?
Thanks,

AL
 

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dog's get hurt in just about every sport. i'm sure there are frisbee dogs that tweak a knee or their back once in a while. it may happen more often in certain sports, but that shouldn't be grounds for not doing it IMO. selena has often spoke about the difference between how we (americans) view our dogs and how the dutch view their dogs. we seem to want to make our dogs family members and the dutch believe their dogs are dogs (is this right selena?). the dogs get great enjoyment doing their sport and not letting them do it because of a small risk of injury isn't doing the dog any favors.

i would guess that the number of KNPV dogs that get hurt from a bite in a trial are very small. i would think that most of the injuries would occur at their club where the helpers usually aren't as good as the trial decoys. selena said the selection criteria for being a trial decoy are very vigorous.
 

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Quote:I have a great deal of respect for both KNPV and the dogs who can compete in it... but I wouldn't be willing to risk serious injury or death to my own personal dogs just to compete in a sport, it just doesn't seem worth it at that point.... it takes "doing something fun with your dog" to a "your dog is just an object/posession" and that's simply not how I think about them and hope I never will.


This is a (one of) fundamental reason why US dogs suck. It is a dog, not a fur kid, or any one of the amazingly stupid "family" type descriptions I see. It is basically livestock. If they are weak, well, you put them to sleep. Only the strong should make it and the weak weeded out. We (US) breed some of the most piss weak dogs I have ever seen, and then are proud of the fact that we are "Keeping this amazing breed working" or some inane BS like that. Makes me want to vomit.

God forbid they institute breed wardens in this country. No one would be allowed to breed.



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Jeff Oehlsen said:
............This is a (one of) fundamental reason why US dogs suck. It is a dog, not a fur kid, or any one of the amazingly stupid "family" type descriptions I see. It is basically livestock.......
Livestock: Domestic animals, such as cattle or horses, raised for use or for profit, especially on a farm; food animals; slaughter animals; also referred to as stock.
 

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There are injuries in KNPV..indeed usually neck and sometimes spinal injuries. They usually occur during the long attack on the stick (frontal attack) where the decoy and dog have really a confrontation with eachother.
It usually happens to the very courages dogs with a great attack (imo), who "block" the decoy. The confrontation is than very hard.

Our Spike has neurologic problems at the moment (caused by the confrontion on the stick attack), his attacks are so hard he probably had more than one "concusion". If he does a stick attack now (and only on the stickattack), he looses his ability to hold his balance after the out and sitting behind the decoy. If he bites there are no changes in his bite/grip.

Injuries are more on the trainingfield, not only because of maybe less skilled decoys (like Tim said), but because of the learning process where more errors are made (by decoy and especially the dog). If the dog are going to trial there work his so worked on, there are minimum mistakes in timing, looking etc.

About the stonewalling as Al put it, is also a couragetest.....it´s easier(for his body and mind) for a dog to taking with a decoy in a movement backwards than have a very angry man walking hard in to a dog, verbally and fysically threat a dog....

If you see the vids I posted on Furie, you´ll see a part of the learning process KNPV stickattack...she is one of the dogs who can´t take the couragetest in KNPV, not in a way we like to see it anyway. If you see her on the courage test IPO style she is great, it is less threatening for her.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
***This "livestock vs. fur kid" debate will be a GREAT one, let's put it in the general dog discussion thread. I'll create it now. [/Woody]***
 
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