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Anyone use the Koehler Method of Dog Training?

If so, how do you like the results?

Reason i ask is b/c someone i know has challenged me to read it and see what i think. Says i should implement it in my training and not look back.

Trains to not "bribe" your dog to obey with treats or toys. Thats its basis.

I ordered my copy of the book tonight. I'll read it with an open mind to see what i think.
 

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You might also want to search (click on "search" and then "advanced search"), and check out prior threads on the
topic. ;)


You'll get replies, I know ... just saying that you'll also find a lot on the topic via search, as well.
 

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KMODT is obsolete. There are lots of other methods that are more effective. Yes you can train a dog with it but it's like building a house with a claw hammer instead of a nail gun :)
 

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i would suggest reading the book b4 drawing any conclusions up front. i was only able to get the online version, and it is incomplete.

i have a bunch of drafted posts regarding what i got from Koehler but have never gotten around to smoothing em out and posting

there's usually some take aways you can get from any training style; whether it's what to do or what not to do :)
 

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I was doing Koehler back in the 50s-60s. Does it work? Yes!
There are many methods to train a dog so there is no reason not to read it, even use some of it.
In the past 10 yrs I've gone to marker training "almost" exclusively now.
Listen to everyone then decide what works for you and your dog.
 

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Koehler was the method I first learned way back in the stone age, but I no longer do it. Marker training is so much faster and gets much better results. I will say that the very low drive dog, basic pet couch potato dog, still does better with a combo of Koehler/marker training as they have very little motivation and you end up making them do the exercises and then praising them. The high drive dog will offer behaviors as they are extremely motivated for their reward.
 

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SO is the challenge to read the books?

or is it to implement and use the training and follow the books and the Koehler methods exclusively?

There are several areas in which some of Koehlers methods have proven to be very valuable to me and many other people I know.

It certainly cannot hurt anything for you to read the books, just remember as with anything else, your interpretations of the written words, and your application of methods based on reading the books, may bear little resemblance to the methods and manner of use by the author.

Koehler obviously was much better at using his methods than many people that have read his books are.

I personally use some of the methods discussed in a few of his books in conjunction with things I have picked up from others as well. Like I said there are some real nuggets in his writings, at least I think so.



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Koehler was the method I first learned way back in the stone age, but I no longer do it. Marker training is so much faster and gets much better results. I will say that the very low drive dog, basic pet couch potato dog, still does better with a combo of Koehler/marker training as they have very little motivation and you end up making them do the exercises and then praising them. The high drive dog will offer behaviors as they are extremely motivated for their reward.
Hhhhhmmmm, I do my fair share of working with lower drive dogs as well as dogs that have been inhibited by incorrectly applied compulsion training. Marker training is highly effective with those type of dogs. I don't see how the decision of whether to apply marker or Koehler methods as one based on drive levels, at all.

T
 

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Contrary to what Mr. Barriano believes, KMODT is far from obsolete. It is in fact very relevant in both application and results. Its goal is off leash reliability. That, you will get if you adhere to the method within the proscribed 10 weeks.
I took my high drive Mal through the 10 week method before I did anything else. There were no e-collars, prongs, toys or tugs or treats or bites. Just the leash, the choke collar, the dog and me with my praise. We got to off-leash in ten weeks with a solid recall with distractions.
After that I started incorporating all the other training aids mentioned above, and began bite work.
You will get reliable gross aspect obedience with kmodt. If your dog is for PP, like mine is, its just what you need. You can certainly train with other methods after laying in the KMODT foundation.
You will not get that kind of tight attention heeling with KMODT. That's probably why Mr Barriano deems it obsolete, he must have some kind of sport dogs. And he likes them to have that prancy google eyed look, when he takes them out of their pens, to train them, or to trial them, or to show them to people he's trying to sell them to. Is that right Mr. Barriano?
 

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You will not get that kind of tight attention heeling with KMODT. That's probably why Mr Barriano deems it obsolete, he must have some kind of sport dogs. And he likes them to have that prancy google eyed look, when he takes them out of their pens, to train them, or to trial them, or to show them to people he's trying to sell them to. Is that right Mr. Barriano?
Most of the people on the WDF compete with their dogs and want attention heeling. If your goals are just PP then KMODT is sufficient for those minimal standards. FYI My dogs aren't for sale
 

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Thank you for clarifying your position on KMODT Mr. Barriano.
Just to summarize; for PP dogs, or on the job police dogs, or military dogs that are searching for bombs, KMODT is a suitable way to train basic obedience. Because, for dogs in those professions attention heeling is not necessary.
But, for your sporting dogs, which probably spend at the most 100 hours out of their entire lifetime in actual competitive circumstances, KMODT is not a valid training method.
And, Mr.Barriano, based on your need for attention heeling and other types of sport OB like precision sitting, downing, etc. you take every opportunity to malign KMODT whenever its mentioned.
The OP's interest is in PP, he asked about KMODT, I would think if his goals and yours are not the same it would have been prudent to withhold your opinion.
Mr. Barriano, I can only hope that if the Queen of England ever visits Colorado, you and your dogs are called upon to protect her from any rudeness or improprieties she may encounter. Such a task could never be entrusted to any lowly PP or military dog. Isn't that right Mr. Barriano?
 

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i guess you all know that the vast majority of dogs trained by Koehler were NOT PP's/PSD's/MWD's .....

imo the two things that Koehler, Cesar Millan, Michael Ellis and all dog trainers have in common is ... their good points and their bad points :)

and imo good points and bad points are kinda like beauty...

looking fwd to a report after reading ... please let us know if it was a life changing experience and you won't need to look at any other training method again //lol//
 

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and when you start reading you will probably get a good chuckle from some of his evaluations of the many different breeds you might want to consider for guarding/protection work ... it definitely dates the book :)

but no matter what you think of his system, it should still be a fun read ... he has a good style of writing imo
 

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Thank you for clarifying your position on KMODT Mr. Barriano.

>You're welcome

Just to summarize; for PP dogs, or on the job police dogs, or military dogs that are searching for bombs, KMODT is a suitable way to train basic obedience. Because, for dogs in those professions attention heeling is not necessary.

>don't put words in my mouth. I said nothing about Police dogs
>or MWD's. KMODT is barely suitable for training basic pet dog obedience. Training advances. KMODT is > 50 years old.
>You can drive across the country in a 1950 Ford with a flat head V8 and three speed transmission and drum brakes and
>no AC. I'd rather have a 2013 car with a fuel injected computer controlled V6, cruise control, disc brakes AC etc.

But, for your sporting dogs, which probably spend at the most 100 hours out of their entire lifetime in actual competitive circumstances, KMODT is not a valid training method.

>As I've stated before. Nobody said KMODT doesn't work.
>There are just LOTS of other methods that work better.

And, Mr.Barriano, based on your need for attention heeling and other types of sport OB like precision sitting, downing, etc. you take every opportunity to malign KMODT whenever its mentioned.

>and you take every opportunity to defend it. What's your
>point?

The OP's interest is in PP, he asked about KMODT, I would think if his goals and yours are not the same it would have been prudent to withhold your opinion.

>And other people have given their opinion on KMODT that
>don't do PP either. I think it would be prudent of you to leave
>the question of any ones replies on this or any or any other >topic to the list owner or moderator.

Mr. Barriano, I can only hope that if the Queen of England ever visits Colorado, you and your dogs are called upon to protect her from any rudeness or improprieties she may encounter. Such a task could never be entrusted to any lowly PP or military dog. Isn't that right Mr. Barriano?

>I'm sure the Queen has her own security force, but feel free
>to offer your KMODT trained malinois for her consideration.
 

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Wow!

"I would think if his goals and yours are not the same it would have been prudent to withhold your opinion."



Huh? The O.P. asked if others had used the Koehler method and what they thought. Nothing about "and don't answer me unless you're training PP." :lol:


Like a whole lot of people of a certain age, I started with Koehler. There was finally a book, and it was clear. And it produced results.

As some others are saying, different protocols have come along in the many years since, and while I learned from Koehler, I've changed my methods.


BTW, to the O.P., "bribing" is a good way to describe marker training done wrong.


All JMO, just as the other posts are people's opinions .... and that's what was requested.




... there's usually some take aways you can get from any training style; whether it's what to do or what not to do ...
I'll drink to that.
 

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Wow!


Like a whole lot of people of a certain age, I started with Koehler. There was finally a book, and it was clear. And it produced results.

As some others are saying, different protocols have come along in the many years since, and while I learned from Koehler, I've changed my methods.
Me too exactly.
Connie, I didn't think you were that old! :-$
 
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