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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A few of us trainers at our club tonight tried something that Bob Scott has brought up a few times, and we all failed to some degree: We each turned our back on dogs we were working with and gave a command that the dogs (supposedly) knew well.

No one got the same level of compliance that we got when facing the dog.

One person said that this wasn't necessarily due to a loss of unnoticed body or face language -- that the dog just isn't immediately aware of being commanded because we are not looking at the dog.

BTW, no one had his/her own dog in this exercise.

Any thoughts about this?
 

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I work like this all the time, in my opinion it is necessarily, to me if the dog does not do it, then he is not clear in his head, and that he does not fully understand what the command is or you don't have his full respect, if you keep working on it, you will be amazed at the reliability he will give you when you are facing him or when you are doing exercises in motion.
 

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Work on commanding from all angles, voice inflections, places, and positions/distances (to include your dog not seeing you while you say the command)...and have other people command your dog and teach him to NOT obey. If you put in the time, you'll get the results you're looking for.

Position changes are good for ensuring your dog knows the verbal cue - by itself. Specially if you say stuff like, "Sit. Down. Stand. Down. Down." to make sure your dog is not anticipating, or trying to form a pattern, and that he understands the meaning of each cue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Khoi Pham said:
I work like this all the time, in my opinion it is necessarily, to me if the dog does not do it, then he is not clear in his head, and that he does not fully understand what the command is or you don't have his full respect, if you keep working on it, you will be amazed at the reliability he will give you when you are facing him or when you are doing exercises in motion.
Yes. We will not have a lot of opportunity to work much more with these dogs, who are a bunch of service dogs getting ready for certification and with whom we had only three or four meetings.

I saw the lower level of compliance, as you say, as lack of clarity. The dogs did all comply when they were clear that this was for them. :lol:

It was interesting to me how dogs who knew their names and knew the commands didn't "hear" it when they couldn't see our faces.
 

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In Schutzhund shouldn't there be an exercise where during the fuss you say "Platz" and keep on walking and the dog falls behind you?

In any case, I train a lot with my voice alone. While it is easier to teach a dog something by using body gestures, it is detrimental in the end...imagine having to point at where you want the dog to go rather than simply telling him the exact place. It is very inconvenient. Starting the foundation motivationally and keeping hands in pockets is a good way to get the dog acquainted with the voice command, and the voice command, alone. Sometimes I even have to use my foot to correct the dog.

Later it's a matter of adding hand signals, the dog will catch to it faster than the other way around.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Jeff Oehlsen said:
Quote:BTW, no one had his/her own dog in this exercise.

What was the point of this? Kinda defeats the exersize by using more than one variable, and at once.

Not really fair
Oh. Well, we didn't have our own dogs handy when we thought of trying it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Jeff Oehlsen said:
So you were walking around just picking up peoples dogs out of their yards?

Where the "F" is your dog.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah, that's the scenario.


These were other people's dogs. My dog was there, but on the sidelines, not being trained.
 

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...and have other people command your dog and teach him to NOT obey.
Good point. I was in a Schutzhund trial once where the owner asked the dog to heel, and the dog pressed himself against the helper's leg instead. After that I came home and did some obedience, and I had someone the dog was close to holding a ball and calling him and shouting commands. I had no ball and managed to hold the dog's attention. The first few times the dog ignored him, but then he got confused and started getting up when the other person called "Come!" and coming to *me* instead. It was funny but I put a stop to it...stay means stay. :roll:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Andres Martin said:
Work on commanding from all angles, voice inflections, places, and positions/distances (to include your dog not seeing you while you say the command)...and have other people command your dog and teach him to NOT obey. If you put in the time, you'll get the results you're looking for.

Position changes are good for ensuring your dog knows the verbal cue - by itself. Specially if you say stuff like, "Sit. Down. Stand. Down. Down." to make sure your dog is not anticipating, or trying to form a pattern, and that he understands the meaning of each cue.
We are all going to do this with our own dogs. I hope that we get better compliance with our own dogs, but I am ready to be dismayed! :lol:
 

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Quote: ...and have other people command your dog and teach him to NOT obey.

This is something to really think about. When I had Rotts, I had quite a few that ignored everyone but me. Sounds cool right?

Try leaving for a week and have the dogs ignore and harass to the point of dangerous your best friend.

OR, Try finding a kennel to watch your dog.

If you have a dog with good drives, and you are just doing sport, you might want to not do this.

I can see teaching the dog to ignore the decoy. Cheating bastages



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Jeff, for close friends the dogs know it's okay that they tell the dog stuff like "Get off the furniture," "Stop doing that," and so on. I just want to deal with the distraction of someone shouting commands while I want the dog's attention on me on the field. Basically the dogs follow me for formal commands, but it doesn't mean they don't trust other members of the family or listen to them.

As for leaving him in a kennel........I'd rather not go on a vacation. :evil:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Jeff Oehlsen said:
Quote: ...and have other people command your dog and teach him to NOT obey.

This is something to really think about. When I had Rotts, I had quite a few that ignored everyone but me. Sounds cool right?

Try leaving for a week and have the dogs ignore and harass to the point of dangerous your best friend.

OR, Try finding a kennel to watch your dog. ...
OR, since I was working with someone else's dog, that would've been a pretty bad plan. :lol:
 

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Years ago I read some article somewhere about a Police dog who's handler was hospitalized during illness or injury, don't remember. His dog would not eat any food given to him by the person watching him, may have been a kennel.Again I don't remember. But it turned out, that they decided to bring the dog's dish to the handler and have him run his hands through it to put his scent on the food. Then the dog ate.
Of course, I assume and from reading about the subject, it is my understanding that these dogs are trained to not take food from anyone other than the handler, so as to avoid poisoning.
So in my own personal opinion, I would like to see a dog have at least one other close person that they trust and will follow commands from in case needed.
 

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Jeff, I'm sure you've met a dog who will have diarrhea from one single piece of popcorn. I'd rather not come back to a bloated dog. ;)
 

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We have two good kennels in our area which take in Police and trained working dogs regularly. Both kennels follow the directions given about the dogs. There has only been one incident that happened but it happened because they did not know, nor did I how driven the dog was if kenneled. She was people friendly, so no directions about problems with feeding or cleaning kennel. Although, after my surgery, they told me she scaled the chain fence and up and over to the outside of the kennels. Luckily they also have an exterior property fence and noticed her out there and got her back. Then she was placed in the section reserved for aggressive dogs that has a climb proof roof connecting the the top of the chain run fence.
 

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Jeff Oehlsen said:
Then again, probably should of been a cull. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
With the amount of gas he emits, I think he might be.

Good thing I didn't pay full price for him. :twisted:
 
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