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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I've probably mentioned that my TD told me that Jak's bitework wasn't as good as he was thinking it would be by now, and that I took Jessie as a potential "Plan B" if Jak didn't improve. We haven't trained at all for the past few weeks because of the holidays, but we did train yesterday morning. Let me just say that there was a definite improvement in Jak's attitude, biting, everything. He even carried the sleeve! All over the field! Up until now, when the sleeve was slipped, he'd take it to the ground and lay there and try to eat it, even if I tried to drag him into movement. It's like the light bulb is trying to come on in his little brain, finally. :lol: I got an e-mail from the TD this morning that just said "BIG IMPROVEMENT." :D I set up my camera to do a video, but it was too far away. I wasn't sure exactly where I'd be, so I couldn't zoom it in.



Oh, and kind of on another note, I took him on Saturday to be evaluated for explosives or drug detection, and the guy said Jak was an excellent prospect; he didn't have any issues at all about playing with the guy's Kong, in a completely new location, or hunting for it or a piece of PVC pipe in the bushes. He found it the first time. The second time he didn't, but he never gave up looking, so the guy said that was excellent. I think I'm going to try for explosives detection with Jak, and if I keep Jessie, see if I can get her to do drugs. .... er, sniff for drugs. :lol: I'll start once tax season is over. I've got to get him more comfortable about picking up and holding the PVC in his mouth - he did, but he wasn't really sure about it. He's never had anything hard in his mouth before, though. That shouldn't be an issue. The issue will be coming up with the money.
 

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Sometimes dogs need to have a little down time to "get" what they are supposed to do... go figure. Glad he's improving! Seeing that dim little lightbulb flickering is a big step.
 

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What Mike said & sometimes they plateau for a while. Best thing is to do what you did. Glad to see he is back on his game! I think they are more like us than we care to admit sometimes!
 

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Kristen Cabe said:
I've got to get him more comfortable about picking up and holding the PVC in his mouth - he did, but he wasn't really sure about it. He's never had anything hard in his mouth before, though.
why is it important for him to pick up and hold PVC in his mouth?
 

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Tim beat me to it.
If your doing explosive detection training, why are you having the dog mouth the PVC tubes.
Any detection work for that matter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I think that's what this guy does - puts the scent inside the PVC. The one we used had a BUNCH of little holes all over it. He said we wanted to get Jak to where he would retrieve the PVC like he does the Kong or ball. Then we'd start imprinting scents.
 

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so he adapts the dog to the training rather than adapting the training to the dog. regardless of what the scent is put in, you have to extinct it anyway, so why force a dog to retrieve PVC when it willingly will retrieve a kong or a tug or whatever? this is also a good argument for starting the dog on psuedo scents. i know some don't like to use psuedo at all (probably an argument for another thread), but when the dog is particular about what he/she will retrieve, psuedo can speed up the process...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This guy uses both pseudo and the real thing. I think he said we'd start out on the pseudo. Jak will pick up the PVC, and did several times; it's just that he wasn't *quite* sure if he was supposed to or what, since he's never had anything hard in his mouth before. It's not a big deal now that he knows it's no different than picking up the Kong or ball. I don't know the methods of teaching detection, so I can't comment on adapting the training to the dog or vice versa.
 

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I apologize in advance, I can't resist posting any time someone mentions the use of psuedo.

Psuedo is not real. It requires no license, no safeguards. It's teaching a dog to an odor that is similar to the real thing. There are no certification agencies that will allow the use of psuedo during certification. Every trainer I've ever spoken too that uses psuedo always states; we test on the real thing. I've said it before and will continue saying it; using psuedo is like firing blanks during qualification. It's a waste of time.

Teaching an explosives dog to pick up anything related to the scent of explosives is not in the best interests of training. It could be a catastrophic tactical error. One I'm not willing to chance.

DFrost
 

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David Frost said:
Psuedo is not real. It requires no license, no safeguards. It's teaching a dog to an odor that is similar to the real thing. There are no certification agencies that will allow the use of psuedo during certification. Every trainer I've ever spoken too that uses psuedo always states; we test on the real thing. I've said it before and will continue saying it; using psuedo is like firing blanks during qualification. It's a waste of time.
david, i certainly was not advocating the use of psuedo for certifications. like you said, nobody does that. the fact is that psuedo has some major logistical advantages over real dope:

-you don't have to go through the check out procedures every time you want to train (get locker key from watch commander, get dope, weigh dope, record weights, train, weigh dope, record weights, put dope back in locker). this all of course assumes that the watch commander is around to get the key from. i keep pseudo in my trunk and can get it out and train whenever i want to.

-you don't have to worry about the dog ingesting the dope. this is a particular advantage in the earliest stages of training. using a scented tug or scented kong, or scented whatever is far easier than the gifte (PVC) or wrapping up real dope in a towel especially for the dog who shows an aversion to the harder items. even the most well laid out plans can go awry and dogs can end up ingesting dope. not a good thing.

now given the choice, i would always choose to train with the real stuff. in fact i'd say about 80% of my training now is with real dope. it's nice, however, to have the option of psuedo.

also i must correct you on your statement that it's teaching the dog a similar odor to the real thing. that isn't quite accurate and paints a bad picture. pseudo cocaine is methylbenzoate which is in cocaine. pseudo heroin is acetic acid which is in heroin. these odors are part of what make up the signature odors of those drugs. it's part of the overall scent picture of the real drug. so it's not "similar" it is an exact part of the real thing. i'm not sure what the pseudo chemical for marijuana is, but i assume it's the same kind of deal (one of the actual, many odors that are in marijuana).
 

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I apologize in advance, I can't resist posting any time someone mentions the use of psuedo.
Explosives are man made product/chemical so it is reality that you can duplicate the desired odors for the dog to train on. Where as the real thing may also contain plastics and other material related to every day things that is not desirable to reinforce. The bottom line is this is 2007
not 1965 both training methods and knowledge has greatly advanced.

There is currently large number of dogs being trained with the new X-scents these people are having great results. I am like everyone else (show me the money) so I and plenty of others have tested both ways train on real see if will hit on pseudo/ train on pseudo see if hits on real.

I like the convenience (size) safety (size) and a guide to longevity when dealing with odor vapor head space. (strength) The only thing I dont like is the price.

Dan Reiter
 
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