[Stacia Porter]

Just one more note about the prong collar - if you're worried about it being too 'harsh,' you can buy the vinyl tips that go over the prongs. I used them on the dobie/hound I fostered because the bare prongs seemed to irritate his neck. They may not work as well on a longer haired dog like a shepherd, but they are at least a thought. :wink:

Huh, I had no idea they had those. I'm not worried about injuring him really. He's had a full grown french bull dog hanging from his neck without any injury. But for a smooth coated dog those tips could come in serious handy. Kinda like the neighbors I had who were using a prong collar on their 4 month old miniature dachshund :roll: (a prong, might I add, they purchased for their 8 week old rottie who had, of course, since outgrown it -- same couple \"taught\" said rottie not to bite by sinking their teeth into his ear every time he put their hands in his mouth. I was just waiting for him to sink his teeth into one of their arses hee hee).

The army won't pay me nearly what my washer/dryer is worth. They never do. I'm still in awe that they managed to drop the thing on its top. That's talent!

OOOOH and before I forget: Kristen, where did you get Jak's fursaver. Dh asked me to mention it to you b/c that's teh kind he wants for Achilles (all we could find in Germany were the smaller silver rings and he wants the larger bronze ones).

I can actually leave my house today -- so let's cross our fingers and hope I find a prong. Worse comes to worse I'll order online...gotta go to petsmart for some new doggie toys anyway. Poor dog's chewed all of his up again and last night was using my toilet bowl brush as a substitute

 

[Kristen Cabe]

I actually got Jak's fur saver from Wayne, and his is silver, not bronze. But if you want a bronze one I can get you one from a little pet store up here that sells them (the one from Wayne was free). Just tell me what size you need and I'll get it for you. Both are Herm Sprenger brand collars.

PetsMart does sell prong collars, but I don't know about the quality of them. I've never had a problem with my cheap ones, but some people say they have.

 

[Stacia Porter]

I actually got Jak's fur saver from Wayne, and his is silver, not bronze. But if you want a bronze one I can get you one from a little pet store up here that sells them (the one from Wayne was free). Just tell me what size you need and I'll get it for you. Both are Herm Sprenger brand collars.

PetsMart does sell prong collars, but I don't know about the quality of them. I've never had a problem with my cheap ones, but some people say they have.

I'll give ya a call later . I could have sworn Jak's was bronze...I must be losing my mind! We've been needing to switch our boy over forever and get rid of hte nylon collar but of course havent' found what picky DH wants..urgh.

I did buy one of the PetSmart prongs. I haven't had much trouble releasing the links, and it actually has a sort of latch to hook from one side to the other so you don't have to remove a link to open it. We'll see how that holds up. Worse comes to worse I order a Sprenger LOL. I tried him on it outside for about a minute and it did make a difference, though no people/dogs/squirrels/birds were there to see what would happen. He was walking pretty nicely, though!

 

[Jeff Oehlsen]

So, now that you have a pinch, can I keep my title "pompous"???? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

It is never the device that is cruel. Only humans are cruel, it comes from their intent.

I also saw in here somewhere about sharpened pinches = bad training. I have been around the dog scene a long time, and I have had/seen dogs that ignore even those. Until you have owned a super powerful dog like that, don't ridicule the lengths one has to go to to get control. Way back when, we didn't have marker training, we didn't have easily adjustable E-collars, and we didn't have forums like this to learn from others.

So all in all, if you think we were too harsh on the dog, then try training a dog without food, and just a choke or pinch. You don't get to ask us for advice, you are on your own, like we were and we give you a dog from the past, one that hasn't been bred for the past 35 years to be willing. If you ever get anywhere, which, to talk trash about the method, you will need to achieve a three either in Sch or FR, which people using this method did. Using the sharpened pinch was much easier, because you needed less force. No one I ever saw made the little points into needles, just pointy enough. Guess what???? I never broke the skin either. I guess I am ranting, so I will stop. People do not realize how good they have it nowdays.

 

[Mike Schoonbrood]

So, now that you have a pinch, can I keep my title "pompous"???? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

If you're serious about that, I can change the lil thing under your name that says "Puppy" to permanently display "Pompous" :mrgreen:

I often think about the way things were done when people had to figure it out for themselves. Alot of things have become over-simplified, and, in some cases, kinda ruined because of all this communication between people. If you go to RadioShack now, their selection of electronic components is only about 1/15th of the store, the rest is cell phones TV's computers cameras and toys... people don't do anything themselves anymore... if you go to an auto parts store the store is filled with accessories for honda's n toyota's that just bolt on... even the folks who are still into hotrodding have it easy because everything comes mass produced now, you can build a very nice drag race engine from out-of-the-box parts that are all made to work together. or even go straight to GM Performance or Ford Racing and order a factory engine with 700hp with adapters and converters for various transmissions rather than being forced to fabricate your own to make a different combination work. I think it makes things less interesting when everything's done for you, which is why I really enjoy working with my boy Cujo, I had to figure it all out, granted I did have the benefit of advice from folks such as yourself in getting him to where he is today, but alot of things involved standing back and thinking "OK so what do I do now"... a dog like my girl Lÿka is great, I'm sure she's gonna excel in her work, but the challenge of figuring it out isn't there, I'm sure I'll have enough of a challenge with her, I'm not complaining, but most of the things I had to figure out with Cujo will come naturally to her, and the internet has it all covered, I just go to google and bam all my problems are solved.

 

[Connie Sutherland]

....I'm not complaining, but most of the things I had to figure out with Cujo will come naturally to her, and the internet has it all covered, I just go to google and bam all my problems are solved.

I like it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Jeff Oehlsen]

Quote:If you're serious about that, I can change the lil thing under your name that says "Puppy" to permanently display "Pompous"

I think I like that!!!! :lol:

 

[Stacia Porter]

Nope, still pompous.

I've only had to use the prong twice. Now that I have his attention, all I've had to do is say pfui sharply and he stops the barking. I'm sure he'll need a few more reminders, but for now I'm back in control. Of course we're taking him on a road trip to visit my aunt and uncle on Wednesday and they have dogs and dogs pass their house, so I'm sure he'll forget what he's learned and need to go back on the prong. And my aunt is just insisting we go to a dog park, so I'm thinking up excuses why I can't go -- I just don't see my dog behaving and I'm not willing to risk an aggressive dog attacking mine (especially since he's showing some signs of dominance and I think it might be all too easy to end up with a dog aggressive GSD on my hands). Not to mention how often I see people who frequent dog parks complaining about "unneutered males" at the parks; I have an unneutered male and really haven't got the time nor inclination to be lectured by overbearing dog owners on my choices concerning my animal. It makes me wish it were legal to do send outs on people who haven't volunteered to don the bite suit :wink:

It's been way too hot here for walks around the neighborhood, but when it cools down some this next week I'll try him on the prong for a walk. It's been in teh lower 90's and he's spending most of his day drinking water nad laying in front of our air conditioner. I tried to take him outside to do retrieves for a while yesterday and he was so hot he, for once in his life, had no interest in the ball . Man was I SHOCKED...

 

[Connie Sutherland]

You probably weren't looking for backup in the decision not to go to a dog park, but you have it (100%) from me.

 

[Jeff Oehlsen]

Quote:I've only had to use the prong twice.

Amazing. How many times did you use the flat collar???? Someday when you get over yourself, you will realize there are others, as I do, that are giving good advice here. I remember reading some big stinky you had with the collar, yet here you are using it successfuly thanks to the advice of others with WAY more experience.

How is that for pompous???? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[Jeff Oehlsen]

And in case you forgot about your horror at the use of a simple pinch collar, we have this goodie.

Quote: I am abject to corrective collars. The dog has never worn one, nor will he.

Uh OH!!!!!

And so I keep my pomposity, I have forgotten more than you will ever know about training dogs. \/

[admin edit: Jeff knock it off]

 

[Connie Sutherland]

.....I also saw in here somewhere about sharpened pinches = bad training. I have been around the dog scene a long time, and I have had/seen dogs that ignore even those. Until you have owned a super powerful dog like that, don't ridicule the lengths one has to go to to get control. Way back when, we didn't have marker training, we didn't have easily adjustable E-collars, and we didn't have forums like this to learn from others........

I agree, Jeff, about blanket condemnation of a certain tool. We may all have a personal aversion to a particular training tool, but that doesn't mean it is never useful in extreme situations.

I haven't had to use a sharpened pinch, but what is it except another version that may not be necessary in most cases -- not a tool whose nature makes it a sign of bad training.

A lot of experience teaches a lot of stuff, including the idea that our disdain for a particular tool may just mean that we haven't had to use it. Yet.