[Mike Schoonbrood]

I have the opportunity to bring my 10.5 week old pup around cats tonight -- our idea was to put the cat in a cat carrier and just watch the puppies reaction to the cat from a distance then if all is well, bring the puppy closer to investigate the cat.

What should I do if the puppy goes psycho at the cat? Is this whole cat carrier thing a bad idea? Does anyone have any better ideas on how to introduce a puppy to a cat?

I'm not a cat person myself, but I figure take this opportunity to introduce puppy to cat while she's still small :lol:

 

[Patrick Murray]

I think the idea is to socialize and condition the pup to anything and everything (well, maybe not radioactive waste :mrgreen, including cats and let the pup see that these things are not a threat nor are they a \"play\" or \"prey\" item. In my opinion, and some people might want to lynch me for saying, but in my opinion a puppy needs to be \"guided\" and \"corrected\". If the pup was still with the mother the mother would certainly correct inappropriate behavior. Not to get off the point, but I think the term \"correction\" sometimes means different things to different people. To me it's simply a re-direction of focus or activity and not necessarily a punishment, although it can be as I would define it. Anyway, in my opinion it would be ok for the pup to display normal, natural curiosity about a cat or anything else. It's healthy and good, to a point. We expose our pups to various settings, animals, etc. so that later in life they are accustomed to it and will be neutral to it. We don't want the dog to go into drive when it sees a cat somewhere just like we don't want the dog to freak out when it sees someone in an electric wheelchair for the first time. Hence, socialization. Just like we would \"correct\" our 5-year old child for blatantly staring at a disfigured human being, we should \"correct\" or \"redirect\" the pup's behavior away from wanting to play with a strange cat. So again, in my opinion, it's ok and healthy for the pup to show interest and curiosity but it's not ok for the pup to want to play with or chase the cat. The pup must learn to be neutral around cats that it will undoubtedly encounter many times in life.

 

[Kristen Cabe]

When I tried to introduce Jak to my cats, at 5 months old, he went ballistic barking at them, and even very strong prong corrections didn't work to make him stop. In fact, he just yelped and kept right on trying to go after the cat, which decided he'd had enough of that and took off. If he knew there was a cat under the couch, for example, he would circle the couch until I finally made him stop. If I redirected his attention with a treat, he took the treat and went right back to focusing on the cat again. If I put him in his crate, whenever he would see the cat he would go ballistic again. :? After a few tries, and whenever my cats would refuse to come upstairs at all, I decided to stop trying and wait until I could fry him with the ecollar for going after the cats.

I sure hope your experience is better!!

 

[Bob Scott]

Although I think the average dogs can learn to get along with cats, I feel that dogs bred with the intense drives many working dogs have couldn't be totally trusted with cats.
IMHO, the average cat will make a fool out of the average dog.
Mike, I seriously doubt you've got an average pup there. :lol: :lol: :wink:

 

[Daryl Ehret]

From the first moment I brought my new working pup home, I've worked with him around my cat. Sometimes he would ignore it, other times sniff it and chase a little. Redirecting his focus with a tug or rag for a while worked, later the cat applied his form of correction. Before, they could lay on the floor in the same room, and now it's escalated into full blown social aggression. Using a choke collar, while the cat sat and stared at him, he barked, growled, and snarled and eventually drew blood from the hand applying correction. An alpha roll subdued him somewhat and then back into agression again, lunging and barking. I've had him for three weeks now, and he's about 11 weeks old. Lately his dog agression is increasing toward pack members, and I'm having to pry him from the withers or legs of adult dogs (that thankfully don't defend in full force).

I've applied Konrad Most's technique for correcting "chicken agression" as applied to cats, using the choke chain, but I'm wondering if there's a better way. I don't want to ruin his drives or confidence, for schutzhund competition. It's appearing that he'll need to be crated during times he's not actually being worked.

 

[Woody Taylor]

I've applied Konrad Most's technique for correcting "chicken agression" as applied to cats, using the choke chain, but I'm wondering if there's a better way. I don't want to ruin his drives or confidence, for schutzhund competition. It's appearing that he'll need to be crated during times he's not actually being worked.

Sorry to be dumb here...chicken aggression? Just wondering what that was.

I've spent a long time getting the dog and cat used to each other. To Bob's point, I'd never trust a high-prey dog around any cat..for both of their sakes...last thing I want is a dead cat and a punctured dog eye.

It is interesting to me that all of the dog/cat intro stuff you read seems, to the most part, to ignore the temperment of the cat. I still have roaming cats come up to Annie (65 lbs) and me on our walks hissing and hackled up (this will last as long as Annie will tolerate it...they bail pretty quick when she lunges at them...but my overall point is that a territorial tom will probably make a fool of most puppies in a bad way).

I think introducing a dog and cat should happen in an environment comfortable and natural for the cat yet new for the dog, and in the midst of distractions for the dog as folks above have described. Probably not in a crate but on a line so redirection is easy. And lots of scent before sight. JMHO based on my one experience and the stuff I read around it.

So anyway, now I have Annie (<12 mos) to the point where I'll put her in a down next to the cat and groom the cat, etc. This is tense for both of them but it's getting better. Still would never leave her alone with the cat.

 

[Andres Martin]

Yes. Make the cat very electric. And immediately re-focus your dog on a TASK, not a reward.

Basically, I want my dog to ignore all other animals.

In this country, in the rural areas, we must make apprehensions in the middle of pigs, cows, horses, cats, goats, other people, other dogs, garbage, etc. The dogs are taught to ignore these stimuli, and go for the man. This makes for some pretty interesting training scenarios. At least they're interesting to the other animals in the audience!!!

:lol:

 

[Daryl Ehret]

About the "chicken agression", that was just a bit I remembered from Most's book about how a dog that had killed some chickens was corrected for not only agressive behavior, but also just looking at the chicken prompted a correction so that the association was made with "pain" and the dog learned that by not even looking, or pretending it wasn't there, the pain could be avoided. I haven't read an abundance on dog training as much as learning and behavior theory, so that was just what came to mind. I don't know for sure what today's common accepted methods are, except that everything seems to be motivational. Thought there might be something obvious to more experienced trainers that I'm not aware of.

I have about ten adults right now, some high drive, some aggressive in other focused ways. All of them have learned to coexist with the cat, either by ignoring it or engaging with it. This new pup is more extreme in his agression, and quite a new experience for me, but it makes me linger on Bob's comment about "bordering on tempermentally unsound" in the social agression thread. He's very smart, focused and obedient, so I won't worry too much.

In the past, training the dogs to deal with cats was sometimes challenging, the cat sometimes taunting, or making a game of chase from highground to highground. But in this instance the cat knows not to fool around with this one, and the only reason the two were that close together when the cat made the correction (probably two occasions) was because I couln't reach in time to redirect the pups attention. The pup is crated, I don't leave him alone with the cat.

I suppose I can recreate the scenario a few more times and he'll probably get it. It was just shocking to see him struggle so hard, despite the correction he underwent.

 

[Woody Taylor]

Thanks for the explanation, daryl. And I really like your dogs...particularly now that bob scott has given me a bad case of "sable envy." ;-)

Can you go halfway on that correction effectively? I don't mind if the cat and dof interact...they sniff each other, etc. What I don't want is annie standing over her (the cat won't move but will get ready for battle) or her bolting after the cat. I don't know if I can have it both ways.

 

[Bob Scott]

Mike,Woody! I'd still be very cautious about having a cat around a high drive dog.
BTW! How are they both doing with the cats?
Thunder has been trained from a pup to ignore any critters. He's been quite social with a buddy's wife's cat yet I'd never trust him to NOT give chase if the cat made sudden bolt. Could I stop him? Yes! On a dime! Would it be quick enough? Sure don't wanna finds out. Luckily this particular cat is about the laziest, who gives a $#!+ critter on four legs.
Pete, my JRT, hates cats, yet he's controlable if I'm right there.
Polly, my Border Terrier! Not in your's and my life time would a cat be safe around her, under ANY situation. She's proven that to me with a few barn hunts for racoon.

 

[Woody Taylor]

BTW! How are they both doing with the cats?

They're fine, in my case. They're mostly separated by the maze of gates through the house. The cat has taken over one of the cribs--elevated and lots of bars so no dog harassment. We also feed her in an elevated place, etc. The dog does not have free run of the house, the cat does, etc....

So Mike, you initiated this thread back in mid-April, how did things go on your side.

 

[Bob Scott]

Mike now has to supply Lyca with fresh cat meat in order to keep her happy. :lol: :lol: :wink:

 

[Woody Taylor]

Mike now has to supply Lyca with fresh cat meat in order to keep her happy. :lol: :lol: :wink:

At least now I understand how she's able to do standing back flips in her crate. Sheesh. Cat meat! Innova just released a red meat version of Evo...I'll send that suggestion over to their customer service group....

 

[Becky Shilling]

It is interesting to me that all of the dog/cat intro stuff you read seems, to the most part, to ignore the temperment of the cat

This a very key factor, IME. I have two cats, now. The kitty that we lost last year to old age LOVED dogs. Especially floppy eared dogs; he liked to nuzzle under their ears. The two cats we have now, one is not crazy about dogs, but she just vanishes into one of her hidey-holes when the dogs are around. Her name IS Ninja! (She watched her mother being torn apart, literally, by stray pits in our neighborhood, so you can't blame her); that's how we ended up keeping her. She was so nearly feral that we couldn't place her.

Our other cat is fairly neutral to the dogs. The most important thing is that the cat not react aggresively to the dog; that turns on all the prey instincts and probably a little anger as well. Brago accepts cats as part of the landscape, he doesn't try to chase them or show an excessive amount of interest. Bronwyn is still such a baby that she tries to get Chubb to play with her, but he'll usually just bat her ears a couple times with his soft little de-clawed feet and then move out of reach. They are both very high-drive dogs.

 

[Bob Scott]

Excellent point! If the cat is going to panic and bolt every time it's exposed to the dog, you've got a long road to travel in keeping the dog calm.

 

[Jeff Oehlsen]

Quote:It is interesting to me that all of the dog/cat intro stuff you read seems, to the most part, to ignore the temperment of the cat

Cats are dime a dozen, so who cares? If anyone has a shortage, trust me, I can fill it easily.

More dogs should train on cats, that way they can some sort of worth. Useless as rats, but breed more often.

 

[Bob Scott]

Quote:It is interesting to me that all of the dog/cat intro stuff you read seems, to the most part, to ignore the temperment of the cat

Cats are dime a dozen, so who cares? If anyone has a shortage, trust me, I can fill it easily.

More dogs should train on cats, that way they can some sort of worth. Useless as rats, but breed more often.

HEY! :evil: Don't knock rats. They can be great training aids for terriers. :lol: :wink:

 

[Kristen Cabe]

Excellent point! If the cat is going to panic and bolt every time it's exposed to the dog, you've got a long road to travel in keeping the dog calm.

This is my problem, and why Jak has not been in the house since he was 5 months old. My one cat (the declawed one) runs like hell if he so much as sees Jak through the storm door. My other cat is somewhat okay if Jak is at a distance, but he likes to hide under the couch and smack Jak from underneath it, which only makes Jak excited. If they are both out, though, and Jak gets too close and Spook smacks him (with claws), it also makes Jak more excited. I'm afraid if I want to keep Jak in the house it's going to take some serious compulsion to get him to ignore the cats. If I'd gotten him when he was younger, and not as able to hurt the cats, I think things would have gone a lot more smoothly.

 

[Bob Scott]

Excellent point! If the cat is going to panic and bolt every time it's exposed to the dog, you've got a long road to travel in keeping the dog calm.

This is my problem, and why Jak has not been in the house since he was 5 months old. My one cat (the declawed one) runs like hell if he so much as sees Jak through the storm door. My other cat is somewhat okay if Jak is at a distance, but he likes to hide under the couch and smack Jak from underneath it, which only makes Jak excited. If they are both out, though, and Jak gets too close and Spook smacks him (with claws), it also makes Jak more excited. I'm afraid if I want to keep Jak in the house it's going to take some serious compulsion to get him to ignore the cats. If I'd gotten him when he was younger, and not as able to hurt the cats, I think things would have gone a lot more smoothly.

Just a thought.
If you seriously need to expose the cats and dog, maybe you could talk with your vet about some mild tranquilizers for both. At least till they get through the initial exposures.
When Thunder was on the tranquilizers during his heartworm recovery, I think If I dropped a bobcat on him, he would have kissed it on the mouth. :lol:
He looked like he was the star in an old Cheech and Chong movie. :roll:

 

[Jeff Oehlsen]

Quote:HEY! Don't knock rats. They can be great training aids for terriers.

Just teach the stinkin cats to hide in holes. Certainly no shortage of that vermin.