Identifying a bitch in heat

Personally I don't like neutering or spaying, it's un-natural and I feel it affects the temprement and personality of the dogs. Cujo is un-neutered and unless he has a medical problem, that's how he is staying. I would hate to spay my puppy then when she is 3 find out she is an amazing working dog that should be bred, then regret listening to people who tell me she's going to get cancer if I don't spay her at 6 months.

Vet's in the US love to make money from the surgery so they tell you things like \"if you neuter your male puppy then he won't be aggressive, he won't mark his territory and pee on everything, he won't be dominant\" etc etc etc, it's all bullshit, I told my vet \"if I need surgery to do that then it must mean I'm not a good trainer!\". With females, there's percentages about reducing the risk of cancer if you spay a bitch before her first heat, Connie Sutherland knows the statistics -- but I'll take my chances with not spaying her unless there is a medical reason to do so. Maybe a dumb pet owner who will have accidental puppies should spay their bitch so they don't create more mutts to fill up the animal shelters, but if you're a responsible owner I don't see a problem. I also think the statistics are too skewed by unhealthy dogs and mutt's. Also pet owners don't want to deal with blood on their carpet. But who am I? I'm not a vet, so maybe I'm wrong, but I'll take my chances

Selena van Leeuwen said:

After aprox. 10 days it becomes dangerous, because they can be bred (dekrijp).

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So the first few days of bleeding she can't get pregnant? So I can wait to see if she's bleeding, THEN seperate them?

Mike your male will be sure to let you know when she is comming into heat. The really be careful time is between 10-13 day of cycle. That is when she is most likely to conceice. I just went thru it with my female & my male really let me know when she was coming into heat. I knew about when she should be due & when to start keeping an eye on them. It may be a bit harder to pinpoint with a first heat cycle. So you may just have to watch you boy for him to let you know. My male is very well behaved & I was able to let them be together with me in the house thru out the whole time. (with my eyes on them of course) If he looked like he was going to try to mount her, I just told him no & he would stop. I only had to crate one of them for about 4 days in the middle of her cycle when it was just too much for him to lay down not fidget in the den in the evening when I was watching tv or on the computer. Up until that point & after it they were together with no problems. I had none of the screaming & barking & crying that you hear about with my male. Outside I kenneled him & let her be in the fenced yard so that they could still interact & play with the kennel seperating them. I of course also kept an eye on them so that he did jump out of my 6' kennel (he has jumped out of a 5' one several time before I had him). My female has not yet been bred ( he has sired about 4 litters) so she didn't know enough to try to mate with the kennel between them, which I have heard has been done. Again, I kept a good eye on them & it was all fine. The female usually will start to swell in the vulva area when they are coming into heat & they may start to spend more time licking that area also. They also may become flacky about things that they usually are not. My female will work just fine while in heat but is flacky about some things & is sometimes skiddish about things when the hormones surge. I guess that I was lucky with my male, he is a good guy. And Al, in case you are reading this....NO PUPPIES !!!!! I hope that this might help, Mike.

lol I'd do it if you lived down here, but if you lived down here I wouldn't need the video I show friends video of my decoy work and they all think I'm insane. Funny. Maybe they don't feel comfortable having a dog attack them while laying on the ground, go figure...



I think that, based on what I hear from both y'alls dogs, you'd have some very cool puppies if you could pass on the right traits :lol:

[Edit: The dog in the pic is Jay Murphy's Malinois \"Dante\", to give credit where credit's due! ]

Woody Taylor said:

.....Neutering Annie is actually part of the contract I signed with my breeder, and something I'd do anyways. No interest in breeding, no interest in accidents, no interest in dealing with repetitive heat cycles, and only positives, health-wise, for Annie relative to my situation and my goals for her. It just makes the most sense for me and I certainly understand why others would not want to close that option for their own animals.

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Me too. This is something I've been rabid (haha) about, for PET dogs.

Now I am learning just what a difference there is between spaying a PET dog and a working dog. I also see that the repro cancer stats just might be affected some by quality of food and quality of life in general, and that often (don't hit me!) is related to the quality of training.......

So, while I'm still working on my knee-jerk reaction to leaving PET females intact, I'm learning that it isn't necessarily breeders only who have valid reasons for keeping females intact.

I do think, regardless of all this, that the current fad of doing neutering early (8 wks to 4 mos) instead of the older ideas about just in time to avert a 1st heat might demonstrate problems down the road. It's a new enough practice that I believe it hasn't been proven to be OK. And for males, although I see the point of doing it before sexual maturity (6-9 months) and the urge to roam, etc., I'm still reading about the advice to wait until age two for long-bone development reasons.

And maybe there are drive reasons, too. I don't know enough yet to comment, but I'm pluggin' away at the newest papers and books!