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The way i see it,the dog is not sure what he is doing there but is not feeling a lot of pressure from the people around him.He seems neutral to his surrounding.
Dog is not sure about the handler and senses the handler is tense(camera shy)?
The dog is feeling pressure coming from the handler(muzzle licking).
Looks like a handler who is out to prove something.
What you see is a dog who is not in any kind of drive but sometimes he looks up at the handler as if to look for a food reward.
I would not judge this dog at all,it would all be guesswork.
Test a puppy to death will you?What does it prove?
Not worried about his ear movement at all,his tail tells a lot more.
Maybe not super relaxed but not worrying either.
Not fair to judge a pup with this kind of info but why people would want to use this as a test is beyond me.
 

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lol

short video of pup at expo..dont know much else than that..nothing to do with KNPV, no background info. An Australian guy with a pup with unknown training or exposure at an expo.

for all we know the guy just tuned up the puppy before this video was shot.



 

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Looks like a nice YOUNG puppy. A lot of distractions to throw at a 5 month old all at once. What's the point?
I also think he's distracted by the LOUD annoying music playing in the background ? :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
its nothing to do with knpv or the training of the pup, i was just more curious about how people would read its body language.

the first response was really informative by the way, i didnt pick up on the licking the lips part. although i thought dogs lick their nose to keep it wet , which helps them maintain their sense of smell
 

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its nothing to do with knpv or the training of the pup, i was just more curious about how people would read its body language.

the first response was really informative by the way, i didnt pick up on the licking the lips part. although i thought dogs lick their nose to keep it wet , which helps them maintain their sense of smell
I watched a tiny bit of the vid. I thought I was going to see a KNPV dog, got bored. Turid Raagas (sp?) used to call that a calming signal. I never bought into all that completely, but I have noticed a lot, dogs yawning and/or lick lipping, etc when stressed. Start looking for one thing, like "lip licking" for ex. at training, pet smart, the vet, etc Then you'll probably be surprised how many things you didn't notice in the first place. That's what I did lol

Rhonda
 

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I was trying to figure out if he had an e-collar on under the bandana because the dog looked stressed. At one point, he turns to look at/wags his tail at the child in the stroller and then quickly looks back at his handler while changing his body posture. I agree with whoever said it looks like the dog is feeling pressure from his handler. He doesn't seem to look as nervous about his surroundings as he does about what he's supposed to be doing. Also, at the end of the video, it looks like he twitches or scratches at his neck. He may not be wearing an e-collar but he certainly looks worried about something and is very calm/well-behaved for a young pup.
 

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I agree with Jack and Ariel. The environment itself isn't a big deal and I don't think its asking too much of a young puppy to deal. I use something like that to test mine. He seems to be dealing with it fine but is worried about what can come from the handler. I'm not sure why this video was made. There is a point the pup perks up with his ears up and looks interested and in drive towards the end. There's been a lot "put there" so you can't really tell what the dog's genetic make up is. All you can say is that he has a helluva off switch or tons of control work.


T
 

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I wouldn't use this video as a way to test or evaluate this puppy at all. His behavior in this environment did not look totally relaxed, nor did it look totally stressed. In order to have any opinion on this video at all I would at least need to know if this was his first time ever out into the public, or has he been exposed to this type of environment his whole life? If this was his very first time out in the public then I'd say the way he handled it was acceptable. If he has been exposed to this sort of thing many times, and for example this was 6 hours into his third day at this expo / event then I'd say he is a little more worried than he should be. This opinion is only assuming its the environment that the dog is worried / conserned about. If the stress is coming from his handler then that is a whole different issue all together.
So in short, we can tell nothing at all about this video other than its a black pup walking through a crowd of people inside a building.
If this were my pup I'd be trying to free him up more, bring him up a little in drive and make this a happy expierence for him. Why would I want to put presure on him here so that he can make a negative association with this type of environment at a young age.
 

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Well my first thought was if the dog likes Clutch he has good taste in music. :) Not to derail this thread, however you've got to give props where they're due.

Otherwise, just for fun, he seemed pretty stable if a bit uncertain what was going on, just based on body language w/ his tail up & wagging and yet looking around. I mean, he licked his lips a couple times and his ears were back and he seemed like he was a pup in a new place, aware yet not slinking away or avoiding anything. Still, I'm not nearly good enough to read much into that in a two-minute video.

-Cheers
 

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From his tail I would say he is not fussed about his surroundings.

From his ear positions I would say this is a "Beschwichtigungsmanöver" that is to say a "placation message" addressed to the handler who is moving (for my feeling) most unnaturally and the dog is unnerved by it or expecting something negative.

However, videos like this are difficult to assess. Is the dog picking up the owner's insecurity or what??
 

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However, videos like this are difficult to assess. Is the dog picking up the owner's insecurity or what??
After watching the other obedience videos on the same YouTube channel, I believe the pup is responding to e-collar pressure. I suspect the bandana is covering the collar and whatever the handler is holding in his hands is hiding the remote (Watch his finger in the first couple seconds of the video ...you'll see it moving as if he's pressing a button. I notice it a few other times, as well, but it's most obvious then). The same user has a couple other videos of a pup of similar age working on obedience and the place command. You see the same behaviors ...yawning, licking, slightly unsure/submissive body posture. Those behaviors are so easy to recognize in dogs, especially young pups, that have been working using negative reinforcement with the collar. Not saying it's bad training, just that the stress from the training manifests pretty obviously, especially in young dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
^ wow i didnt think it would have been an e collar (well not at that age anyway) iv never read that much into licking or yawning (especiall yawning, shouldnt that mean the dogs relaxed ?)
i read the ears back , little bow of the head as a more submissive behaviour, you get that posture a lot in pups/adults when their owners pat them on the heads etc , similar kind of posture
 

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^ wow i didnt think it would have been an e collar (well not at that age anyway) iv never read that much into licking or yawning (especiall yawning, shouldnt that mean the dogs relaxed ?)
i read the ears back , little bow of the head as a more submissive behaviour, you get that posture a lot in pups/adults when their owners pat them on the heads etc , similar kind of posture
Yawning, most often, is an indication of stress.
 

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^ wow i didnt think it would have been an e collar (well not at that age anyway) iv never read that much into licking or yawning (especiall yawning, shouldnt that mean the dogs relaxed ?)
i read the ears back , little bow of the head as a more submissive behaviour, you get that posture a lot in pups/adults when their owners pat them on the heads etc , similar kind of posture
Seems like there was a fair bit of subtle or not so, things taking place in the video. I think it was a good video for review for that reason alone. It generated dialogue that could serve to educate others on behaviors that might be missed by owners or others that are interested in learning about training techniques and reading dog behaviors.

Course, I initially got distracted pretty quickly when I imagined my snipe in that environment. She'd look like the Roadrunner spinning out with excitement getting to where ever it is that she thinks she's going to when entering new places like that. Everywhere I guess, she's just too little and there's not enough of her to get to every place she wants to go at once. \\:D/ Ah, my Wasabi... her motto seems to be any which way you can.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
i had placed a lot more of the behaviour on the dogs genetics at first, and less on the handler, didnt assume that much pressure would be placed on a pup

reall curious to hear from Selena and other knpv trainers to how they would judge the pups (genetics or trainer) , since it is a knpv line dog. how they would expect a 5 month old pup to act in those surroundings, pressure from handler or no pressure
 
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