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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We have the sit, drop and wait accomplished, but the problem is in her drop. When I practice with her I like to vary it - Sit, drop, stand, drop, stand, sit, wait, here, sit wait drop, etc. Each time she is told to drop, she runs into me and drops with her front paws/toenails raking down my legs. Her drop is very, very fast, and I am not sure what to do to get the drop where she is not raking me with her toes/feet.
 

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Are you using hand and body language with your down command? You could be bringing her in with a down motion of your hand.
She may be dropping based on a certain sight picture your giving her. She has to learn it's the voice only that is the command.
If they are otherwise solid, start training them from random positions in relation to your body.
When she starts understand that, then give her the commands while your still moving your feet around.
Reward only for correct downs. Ignore incorrect.
If you don't care for positive methods, you could contain her with a leash so she can't move forward.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Bob, I am using both voice and hand/arm signals simutanuously. When I say sit, drop or here, I have the signal to go with it. It's an old habit, I used to like to be able to use only the arm/hand signal from a distance and not voice. Should I just be using voice only, she is not going to ever be a game warden dog, so I guess voice only would be better. Thanks, and if it keeps being difficult, I may try the leash like you suggested or moving around.
 

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Until a dog learns an eercise it will pay more attention to your body language then your voice. It's just the nature of the beast and body language will override voice IMO.
No reason not to train both but get the voice solid first.
You may also be confusing the dog by going from sit, to down to stand, etc.
If she's not clear on all three as individual exercises, I wouldn't put them together yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Bob, she's clear on all three, I have tested her quite a bit to make sure. She does however show more willingness to sit more quickly when the leash comes out. She will stand when I have a food reward in my hand, but not when there is no reward. Her drop and sit don't require a food reward.
But you may be right, sometimes owner's think they see a solid response, and it is not there yet, I could be moving her too quickly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Jeff, yes, I noticed that I posted that one with a confusion in whether she knew the commands or not. At the end, I said that maybe she did not, your right.
That is a good point about her running at me when I give the command. Is that a pretty good indicator she is not as understanding as I think ??? If so, do you think Bob's ideas are the general best approach? Not to question Bob's methods, but in general, is this what you would do also?
 

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I'd put the puppy on a tie out so he isn't all over the place, then ask him to drop, then immediately put him in the position. Like Bob said, teach first with your voice only. I used to use a lot of hand gestures so I was forced to hide my hands in my pockets when giving commands.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yep, she does not know the command as well as I thought. It was her excitement more so in the house than her willingness to obey the command. I have to do more outdoor command practice with her. She's different in the woods, she keeps her attention on me, instead of focussing on me. So I may get better obedience out there and bring it into the house more after. In the house she is toooooo focussed on what I am about to do or give her, or where the cat may show up, etc. So her drops are really fast and more of a hyper reaction to me than a command being followed. I hope I am saying this right. :D :D :D she did her first track today, I praised her soooo much. We just lucked out, there was a couple walking along the trail out of our sight. She put her nose to the ground and started, I finally saw the couple up ahead and started to praise her for a "good Track" :D :D :D
I love it when nature provides these opportunities.
 

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Quote Jeff:
Your dog understands the situation and the pattern, but then shows you that she doesn't know the command, because she comes to you, instead of just dropping.

Well put Jeff!
One way of testing if a dog truely understands the command is to turn your back on the dog and give the command. It's amazing how many dogs wont have a clue because of the different picture they have of you.
The command is the same but the "situation and the pattern" have changed.
Teaching the moving Sit/Down/Stand are perfect examples.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'm beginning to see the difference in the type of obedience training for what I am shooting for with Bella. Last night we worked on the individual commands. I did the drop/down command by asking her to sit, then praising for that, then waiting a moment and asking her to drop. But this time, I would hold her collar and guide her into the drop and make her wait in the position for a few moments praising a good drop and then reward her.
This is mostly why I closed my training school. I was supposed to be training agility and family obedience, but I was not doing the obedience like other people. I was teaching a lot of forward movement instead and keeping the high drives going. Example: on the recalls, I was teaching to have a fast recall to the front of the handler up close to the body, so as to get the dog back quickly and be able to leash it back up when desired. Or a fast recall in a retrieve of item. I also taught the "place" command. The only in motion command I taught was the Wait for a road crossing or dangerous area or a drop on recall incase a vehicle was coming during recall, etc.
So this regular obedience is new to me. I want Bella to be obedient in all aspects because I want her trained in protection as well. My old ways would not complement this. So all the advice is great. The other reason I trained different before, is I didn't want to have the dog loose confidence in moving forward to obstacles and things, but now I see I can still have both and keep the dog confident and obedient.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
A little edit to the above post:
The other dogs where easier to train for a drop/down than Bella, but in those days I used a lot of compulsion, not always too nice at times. With Bella I am being much more gentle so she is allowed to be more puppyish and I have to learn to work with both and be fun at the same time.
 
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