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Highlights from our PSA trial in Dallas
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How many dogs left with NO injuries???
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I used to play in PSA with a leg dog several years back. I never witnessed the crash & burns that I saw in this video. Has the "sport" become this very, very dangerous for the dogs? 
The clips are showing so many dogs landing on their backs and necks!
Are there any PSA people on this board? What's the verdict on this trial?
I couldn't open the attachment in Paul's post...found this one on another board.
.proeditproductions.com/realaudio/highlights.wmv (cut in paste this address into browser adding the www)
The clips are showing so many dogs landing on their backs and necks! Are there any PSA people on this board? What's the verdict on this trial?
I couldn't open the attachment in Paul's post...found this one on another board.
.proeditproductions.com/realaudio/highlights.wmv (cut in paste this address into browser adding the www)
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Oh, man.
That's a clip I would rather not have seen.
That's a clip I would rather not have seen.
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From what I understand, most of the big falls were Tammy's dog. she's on this board, I'm sure she'll let us know - but I think the dog was retired after this trial. Not because of injuries, just because the dog has been bouncing off like that a lot.
That said, every non-schutzhund dog I train from now on will be a leg dog - I'm hooked
That said, every non-schutzhund dog I train from now on will be a leg dog - I'm hooked
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The video clip you seen was an edited version of the trial. There were two (2) dogs that made the attempt to bite yet did not hold on and ended up flipping due to mometum. You just happen to see the same dog flipping from different angles many times. As in any sport if the dog does not hold onto the grip when it comes to long bites there is a tendency to flip due to momentum. I'm sure people have seen it many times. The video just happened to show it over and over.
Tammy just watched the video DVD version and it's nothing like the clip shows. We have a very good track record concerning dogs safety in PSA and I'm knocking on wood right now to keep it that way.
If there are any questions concerning PSA, I would be more then happy to answer them.
Daryl Richey
Tammy just watched the video DVD version and it's nothing like the clip shows. We have a very good track record concerning dogs safety in PSA and I'm knocking on wood right now to keep it that way.
If there are any questions concerning PSA, I would be more then happy to answer them.
Daryl Richey
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This is really not something that should have been posted. I watched it several times, and while we all know how absolutely stupid I think this sport is, it is not representing it in a positive light at all.
As far as the dog that wiped out, I have not seen this in a while due to changes in training techniques, but this is a dog with good drive that carries him to the bite, but the training has taught the dog avoidance, or perhaps the dogs nerves are just bad, and he cannot deal. I have a feeling with all the goofy yelling and silliness i see in this sport, that the training did this dog in, otherwise why would you trial a dog with weak nerves????
I would love to see just some regular clips of the trial. From what I have heard people had a nice time. It would also show that it wasn't that crazy at that trial.
As far as the dog that wiped out, I have not seen this in a while due to changes in training techniques, but this is a dog with good drive that carries him to the bite, but the training has taught the dog avoidance, or perhaps the dogs nerves are just bad, and he cannot deal. I have a feeling with all the goofy yelling and silliness i see in this sport, that the training did this dog in, otherwise why would you trial a dog with weak nerves????
I would love to see just some regular clips of the trial. From what I have heard people had a nice time. It would also show that it wasn't that crazy at that trial.
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Get real guys. If you paid attention, you would have noticed that it was the same dog in two scenarios. It was shot from different angles and the guy was pulled from competition with NO injuries. I love that fact of how people try to turn it around to a sport thing. It's PSA's fault the dog bounced. No one can anticipate that, once it happens there is nothing anyone can do. The dog got right up and engaged. But Tammy realized that his new "tactic" wasn't safe and she retired him. Get over it. Thanks for all the concern and more importantly the support from fellow dog people.
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I thought Jeff's post was pretty "real."
QUOTE: I would love to see just some regular clips of the trial. From what I have heard people had a nice time. It would also show that it wasn't that crazy at that trial. END QUOTE
It was an odd clip choice to be representative of an event. JMO.
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Below is a video of a trial which features our female Dutchie, Remi. This was her last trial due to an injury she received during this paticular trial. She does not show it in the video but the next day it was evident that her back was "tweaked" and it was at this time that we decided to retire her.
I dont blame the decoy as he had been catching dogs for less then one year at the time of this trial. I speculate that her missed attempt was due to her miss timing of her entry. In my training we charged the dogs at about half the speed that this decoy charged on this day. I dont want to make excuses for her missing the bite but I have owned this dog for five years and it is my opinion that her courage is entact. She had received her PSA 1 title prior to this trial.
It is also my opinion that the swinging motion that we give the dogs in the name of "absorbing" the hit does two things. 1. It is often times exagerated and it puts stress on the dogs back and teeth. 2. It gives a weaker dog a little more advantage because the decoy is forced to deviate from the frontal posture and therefore inadvertently takes pressure off the dog. I hate to keep bringing it up, but I think KNPV has the right idea in making the dog learn to use it's body in a "blocking" posture to drive into a decoy. I also think the KNPV courage test is more valid in that the decoy does not give to the dog and therefore keeps pressure on the dog throughout the entry.
Anyway, here is the video of three of our dogs.
http://www.norcaldogs.com/files/PSAMDB2006.wmv
PS. If you look at my website you will see plenty of dogs being "absorbed" in the fasion that I described.....that is what is great about dog training.....you are never to old to learn if you keep an open mind. PSA fans please dont think I am bashing the sport because I am not. I am simply trying to pass on my opinion based on a little experience.
I dont blame the decoy as he had been catching dogs for less then one year at the time of this trial. I speculate that her missed attempt was due to her miss timing of her entry. In my training we charged the dogs at about half the speed that this decoy charged on this day. I dont want to make excuses for her missing the bite but I have owned this dog for five years and it is my opinion that her courage is entact. She had received her PSA 1 title prior to this trial.
It is also my opinion that the swinging motion that we give the dogs in the name of "absorbing" the hit does two things. 1. It is often times exagerated and it puts stress on the dogs back and teeth. 2. It gives a weaker dog a little more advantage because the decoy is forced to deviate from the frontal posture and therefore inadvertently takes pressure off the dog. I hate to keep bringing it up, but I think KNPV has the right idea in making the dog learn to use it's body in a "blocking" posture to drive into a decoy. I also think the KNPV courage test is more valid in that the decoy does not give to the dog and therefore keeps pressure on the dog throughout the entry.
Anyway, here is the video of three of our dogs.
http://www.norcaldogs.com/files/PSAMDB2006.wmv
PS. If you look at my website you will see plenty of dogs being "absorbed" in the fasion that I described.....that is what is great about dog training.....you are never to old to learn if you keep an open mind. PSA fans please dont think I am bashing the sport because I am not. I am simply trying to pass on my opinion based on a little experience.
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Why on earth would they let a decoy thats been catching dogs for less than 1 year work at a trial????
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Jeff,
What I find interesting is that you can have such a stong..."educated" opinion on a sport of which you have never seen in person. I won't even comment on the theory of the dogs training that you induced due to the short flashing clips from a video.
Your comments arn't biased one bit.
Nope not being defensive....due to that would mean I feel threatened by your comments. I have recently come to understand you and therefore I really don't get bothered by you.
Darryl
What I find interesting is that you can have such a stong..."educated" opinion on a sport of which you have never seen in person. I won't even comment on the theory of the dogs training that you induced due to the short flashing clips from a video.
Your comments arn't biased one bit.
Nope not being defensive....due to that would mean I feel threatened by your comments. I have recently come to understand you and therefore I really don't get bothered by you.
Darryl
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Not trying to bash anyone but I saw the decoys jam quite a few dogs and my only question is why would you show the dogs crashing into the ground as highlights and the same dog over and over again at that. I would like to see the full trial to compare it to the highlights.
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wow..............
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Having been to Holland and seeing the way that KNPV catches are made...for the most part I would rather see some absoobtion from the decoys. The way that the dogs can and sometimes get buckled under is not the impact I wish my dogs to have. Yet saying this I have plenty of footage from all sports that are not ideal catches. They are contact sports (Sch, PSA, Mondio, French Ring KNPV) and being that not all catches are as clean and smooth as we would like. I'm sure we could set here and pick everything apart if we really wanted to. I mean Jeff makes a living out of it on the internet.
Darryl
Darryl
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Darryl -
First let me say that I had met some good people and saw some very good dogs at the PSA trials. My hat is off to Jerry and Joe for starting a dog sport and dedicating so much time and effort to getting PSA off the ground.
PSA has decided to absorb as opposed to teach the dogs to "block". Thats fine. I can see an argument for both. I prefer the block but that is an opinion and like the saying goes everyone has one........
My issue with what I have seen in some of the trials is not just a little absorption but its the exagerated swinging motion that I have witnessed combined with the speed of the decoys as they run towards the dog. Its the decoys speed combined with a little swinging motion that can set the dog up for flying off the bite and becoming injured in the process.
Its not a foot race to the bite. My point is that I think some of the decoys should slow down in their approach and swing the dog little less when trying to absorb.
First let me say that I had met some good people and saw some very good dogs at the PSA trials. My hat is off to Jerry and Joe for starting a dog sport and dedicating so much time and effort to getting PSA off the ground.
PSA has decided to absorb as opposed to teach the dogs to "block". Thats fine. I can see an argument for both. I prefer the block but that is an opinion and like the saying goes everyone has one........
My issue with what I have seen in some of the trials is not just a little absorption but its the exagerated swinging motion that I have witnessed combined with the speed of the decoys as they run towards the dog. Its the decoys speed combined with a little swinging motion that can set the dog up for flying off the bite and becoming injured in the process.
Its not a foot race to the bite. My point is that I think some of the decoys should slow down in their approach and swing the dog little less when trying to absorb.
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Sure, bad things do happen, but the rest of us understand that they are bad, and do not show it over and over as a "highlight".
I do not enjoy pointing out bad decoy work, and even worse training.
You get to a point where you really do not need to see the whole thing to understand it's lack of value. I really am not going to waste my time re-hashing what a joke this is.
I do not enjoy pointing out bad decoy work, and even worse training.
You get to a point where you really do not need to see the whole thing to understand it's lack of value. I really am not going to waste my time re-hashing what a joke this is.
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Quote: I won't even comment on the theory of the dogs training that you induced due to the short flashing clips from a video.
I haven't "induced" anything, perhaps deducted???? LOL
I haven't "induced" anything, perhaps deducted???? LOL
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Wow, I suddenly feel popular being as my dog is the topic of such disdain.
Honestly guys, if you see the full video in 'normal' speed, it is not as bad as it looks in the highlight clip. I was anxious to see the video in its entirety, I received my copy today and the first thought that came to mind was that it really was not as bad as I thought it was. Jax is my first working line dog who was originally going to be a pet. He has all the drive in the world but as Jeff so kindly pointed out, there is an obvious nerve issue. WHY trial a dog with nerve issues? You tell me. Why not? He only just started popping off on the long bite a few weeks before the trial. and not that I'd make excuses for him in the slightest, anyone that has ever met him knows that he is who he is, lol, HOWEVER he did have a root canal about a year ago on one of his canines and I think the tooth may be bothering him again which could account for why he has just started the popping off issues in the last month or so.
I'll tell you what Jax didn't and doesn't do despite his nerve issue, he doesn't get run off the field by a decoy unlike some dogs I know and have heard of so I guess that says something about his nerve compared to others as well.
I agree that the bits highlighted were not exactly the best ones to display but it is not like anything we have ever seen before in other sports. Obviously we failed the protection portion but you know what, we had fun doing it and despite Jax's suicidal attempts, he would do it again in a heartbeat if given half the chance.
Taken after our failed attempt at a PSA1
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Honestly guys, if you see the full video in 'normal' speed, it is not as bad as it looks in the highlight clip. I was anxious to see the video in its entirety, I received my copy today and the first thought that came to mind was that it really was not as bad as I thought it was. Jax is my first working line dog who was originally going to be a pet. He has all the drive in the world but as Jeff so kindly pointed out, there is an obvious nerve issue. WHY trial a dog with nerve issues? You tell me. Why not? He only just started popping off on the long bite a few weeks before the trial. and not that I'd make excuses for him in the slightest, anyone that has ever met him knows that he is who he is, lol, HOWEVER he did have a root canal about a year ago on one of his canines and I think the tooth may be bothering him again which could account for why he has just started the popping off issues in the last month or so.
I'll tell you what Jax didn't and doesn't do despite his nerve issue, he doesn't get run off the field by a decoy unlike some dogs I know and have heard of so I guess that says something about his nerve compared to others as well.
I agree that the bits highlighted were not exactly the best ones to display but it is not like anything we have ever seen before in other sports. Obviously we failed the protection portion but you know what, we had fun doing it and despite Jax's suicidal attempts, he would do it again in a heartbeat if given half the chance.
Taken after our failed attempt at a PSA1
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Quote:Why on earth would they let a decoy thats been catching dogs for less than 1 year work at a trial????
Because after about a year of working dogs you can see little value in what they do.
Just look at the carjacking exersize from the passenger side of the car. This tells us so much about a dogs worth, and the absolute cluelessness of actual carjacking events. Joke # 1.
Because after about a year of working dogs you can see little value in what they do.
Just look at the carjacking exersize from the passenger side of the car. This tells us so much about a dogs worth, and the absolute cluelessness of actual carjacking events. Joke # 1.
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