[Bob Scott]

I want to add that we also did this when teaching handlers how to marker train without involving a dog yet.

One human used the marker "Yes" (optional to a clicker OR any word you want) and the other person was the "dog".

The "trainer" picks an object in the room, yard whatever and the other person acts as the dog.

The "dog" moves around the room and the "Trainer" marks when the "dog" turns in the right direction, etc.

This can sharpen a persons reactions and they can eventually guide the other person ("dog") to any spot they want to.

I realize this is more about shaping but it's also a lesson for training PEOPLE in how to work with timing in training a dog.

 

[Nicole Stark]

True. I've seen this done as well where a handler and a person walk along heeling, with the lead around the waist or thigh of another and someone is behind with another line pulling the "dog" out of position or the "dog" might forge, etc. This of course is to try and mimic certain problems a handler might face and it helps their timing become more fluid and just correct. There's a lot of ways to work on this type of stuff.

Some people are simply not physically and mentally all that well connected. Too busy with internal dialogue, judgments, control aspects, you name it.

 

[Bob Scott]

Isn't that when the e-collar comes in then......or a cattle prod? :twisted:

 

[Sarah Platts]

Bob, Nicole

Good ideas. I hesitate to put the e-collar on them although I've seen it used to 'steer' a person into a specific action by someone else at a workshop. All cute until the stimulus level was pegged out by accident..... Yeah, that was both fun and instructional to watch....lol

Will have to think about the dry run idea. I've done it before but maybe it's time to shake the dust off and try it again.

 

[Bob Scott]

JKN about the e-collar.

I've never used one and have never seen a need in my training although I believe they can be an excellent tool in the right hands.

 

[Nicole Stark]

I used the page feature on the Dutch to move her forward and to set her head straight on trail work. Then I used speed on the ATV to sustain it and as her body language changed, I dropped the speed and could use the throttle RPMs to move her as needed. To allow her to move as she was naturally inclined to, which was in a herding manner was dangerous.

I can't have a dog racing back and fourth between targets, circling, stopping, blocking, and biting to move things about as she wanted. There's often big game in the woods, and that crap she was doing was liable to get any one of us killed.

 

[Bob Scott]

I've always been able to call my dogs off of critters of any sort but it could easily be a game changer when it came to your typical day in the woods. :lol: :lol:

Moose and bears aren't the average critters here. 8-[ :wink:

 

[Nicole Stark]

Yes, and the truth is we're not talking about a walk in a park here. I am in their territory, hundreds if not thousands of acres of land. There's times where a call off is prudent and others where the dog does a job it needs to that keeps everyone safe. It's a fine line and not something everyone can relate to or even begin to understand.

Sorry Sarah - didn't mean to divert away from your issue.

 

[Sarah Platts]

No worries, Nicole. I'm not that sensitive about conversations taking a tangent. Sometimes you learn the most interesting things. My current crop of e-collars have the tone feature and I'm learning to use it. I usually use a whistle but the tone is right there next to their ear so its eliminated the 'selective hearing' issue that sometimes seems to crop up.

 

[Misty Wegner]

Ohmygosh!!! I'm late to this thread but I could not help but laugh hysterically and nod in utter commiserating frustration with Sarah's plight.. It is SO FRUSTRATING!!!

I've been trying to 'train' my tracklayer for 2blinkin years and they still royally screw up.. Just today: I had an aged track laid.. The instructions went like this and were repeated back to me, twice.. Lay the trail on the opposite side of the river. Don't use the road. Once you have gone a mile or so, find a way to cross the river; this is your end for this trail. Cross back over the river the way you came as this is the start of the next trail.. Lay another trail about a mile long. Don't cross the road. Stay on opposite side of river until the end... Simple..

So, my tracklayer crosses the river and lays an OK trail for about a half mile, then crosses the river and continues the trail, including using the road, until ending the first trail. Then she stays on the wrong side of the river and begins the 2nd trail, including using the road for almost half the trail, finally crossing the river for like 50 yards at the end of the trail and crossing back to the ending side of the trail..

Now, I don't know she did this until I run the freaking screwed up trail.. The first dog is golden and does great. The second dog who now has a PLS that has a fresh trail back to the car, and an aged trail before her has to be told "sorry baby, this time you ignore the fresh freaking trail because you have a hamster brained tracklayer and you need to follow the aged trail.. This time".. She did and ran a beautiful aged track, however, because I knew (now) how screwed the trail was (it wasn't a mile long either but we'll under) I told the tracklayer to lay a hot track from the end spot and keep walking until we find you.. DON'T USE THE FREAKING ROAD!

So when we get to the end, my girl casts herself and (this is double blind, no radio either and no cell service) starts to take the fresh track but stops herself and works backwards on the fringe of the aged track.. I'm thinking this wrong, but she is exhibiting all the signs of working odor.. When we get close to the car I am more then livid.. Remember, I have a hamster brained tracklayer still walking... Somewhere...

So I drive back to the hot track (end of aged) recast my girl who this time realizes she should take the hot track, and we run another mile and find our person... Well, sort of.. She is walking (with my other dog) and my boy smells/hewrs/sees us and pulls away from her (she is about a quarter mile away on the opposite side of the river and I am on a mountain side) and races to me.. Of course now 8 have two trailing dogs both demanding attention.. I'm pissed beyond pissed and yell to my tracklayer to stop and I would let my girl find her via air scent... She can't do that right either.. She walks and hides back on the track she was laying (slaps forehead)... My girl begins to search and run to her, but... OK, let's just say at this point it is FUBAR all the way..

I ended up having my tracklayer do a hot track just so my girl could get a decent find and reward.. Which was another whole story... So I can relate as this is just one of many MANY MANY trails where my dogs have been pulled off scent because of instructions not followed, etc...

OK rant over... I feel for you Sarah!

 

[leslie cassian]

Does anybody make notes?

I swear, I could not follow those instructions without something written down to remind me, try as I might. Cross the river, something about the road, lay another track, something else about the river and crossing the road and keep walking until we find you. I can repeat stuff back in the moment, but then that brain cell dies thirty seconds later and I'm lost again.

 

[Misty Wegner]

You also haven't had 2yrs of training on what is expected or know the area, which she does.. Believe me, the instructions were very clear and easy to remember and execute with the training she has and the knowledge of the area... No, she does not take notes.. That would require forethought and an expectation of doing what is asked.. Hence the problem

 

[Sarah Platts]

You also haven't had 2yrs of training on what is expected or know the area, which she does.. Believe me, the instructions were very clear and easy to remember and execute with the training she has and the knowledge of the area... No, she does not take notes.. That would require forethought and an expectation of doing what is asked.. Hence the problem

BaaaHaaa!:lol:

I've had some walk the trail first with a GPS. Then start the runner at the end and have them to "track back" to the start using the gps.

Or gps it and use lots of waypoints and tell the person to walk from waypoint to waypoint.

I remember a cert test where I was using a very large, rural city park. The runner I was using says they have been walking the paths in the park almost every day for years. (this was after my last 3 previous runners got lost every year prior). Knows it like the back of their hand, etc. They get sent out, and yep, we get the phone call that they are lost somewhere on the paths. Yep, dog found them, but they were not located where the evaluator had told them to go. You have to laugh because the alternative just gives you a headache.

 

[Misty Wegner]

I knew that you would understand Sarah, haha.. Horrible to have a cert test have the tracklayer get lost, eeesh... I'm responsible for the errors I put into my dog, and that can happen inadvertently as well as due to something stupid.. But when an intelligent person (usually) suddenly becomes an imbecile and cant do a left, right, left, right trail (they did right, left, left, right.. Huh? Really!) and I screw my dog up, then I'm hot under the collar.. Especially after years of explaining thoroughly, repetitively the why's, how's etc... Sigh.. The woes of being a trailer...

The food thing though, that is hilarious because it happens with trailing as well.. You tell the subject to have food ready you should hear us coming and praise the dog thoroughly... Food is in jacket or forgotten (or lost on the trail) and praise is minimal if it happens at all.. Ugh... Lol...

 

[Marta Perales]

Thx for your recommendatios, are very useful.