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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello Everyone,

Stacey Kubyn, Esquire Caucasians, Chardon, Ohio here. Esquire Caucasians is the founding kennel for the Kavkazskaya Ovcharka (Caucasian Shepherd Dog) in the United States. The KO is a powerful 2000 year old mountain livestock protection breed that was used by the Soviet government for building and area protection. The KO today is found in its original agricultural role in the Caucasus mountains, works security in Russia and Europe, and serves as estate watchdogs and home companions throughout the world. I have maintained a hobby breeding kennel since 1990 and have had the good fortune to spend some months in Russia studying Caucasians and other working breeds. Dogs are a huge part of my life. In my spare time, I am an attorney.

I met Jeff Oehlsen through the Longwood training board and he strongly suggested that I learn more about working dogs and join this excellent forum in pursuit of that goal. Thanks Jeff :D

Regards,

Stacey Kubyn

 

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Welcome Stacey,
There's a video on this site that somebody downloaded from you tube with a CO, test 1-2-3 i think the vids are called. It was the first time that i personally even heard of the breed but the dogs in the video looked cool as hell and bit nice, haven't met one in person yet though i'd like to.

AL
 

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Welcome, Stacy. I have been to your website. Neat dogs you have! Hope you enjoy your time here, COs are pretty interesting for lots of us.
 

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Stacey Kubyn said:
I met Jeff Oehlsen through the Longwood training board and he strongly suggested that I learn more about working dogs and join this excellent forum in pursuit of that goal. Thanks Jeff :D
He wants you to breed in Mals to your lines, don't he? :lol:
 

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Welcome Stacy! If you are interested in working dogs, you have come to the right place :D
 

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Aloha Stacey, welcome on board and I am sure a lot of us would love to know more about your good looking breed.
Robert
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Woody Taylor said:
Stacey Kubyn said:
I met Jeff Oehlsen through the Longwood training board and he strongly suggested that I learn more about working dogs and join this excellent forum in pursuit of that goal. Thanks Jeff :D
He wants you to breed in Mals to your lines, don't he? :lol:

OHHH...so that is what he meant!? :idea: I am a bit dense sometimes :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Al Curbow said:
Welcome Stacey,
There's a video on this site that somebody downloaded from you tube with a CO, test 1-2-3 i think the vids are called. It was the first time that i personally even heard of the breed but the dogs in the video looked cool as hell and bit nice, haven't met one in person yet though i'd like to.

AL
Thanks Al and Everyone for the welcome. Saw the videos and think it pretty breed typical. Have also seen dogs use their paws to try and throw decoy to the ground. The breed fights predators the same way. Some discussions on another board about so called "natural guardians" has brought up that these type of dogs may have weak character to stick to a fight, that they will retarget, but eventually run away with enough pressure. I get all that theory generally, but so far have not been able to resolve it in context of a livestock dog that by its mode of defense against predator, may not bite and hold, but instead will slash and release, slash and release, sometimes fighting more than one predator at a time. Perhaps a good question somewhere else on the forum. Thanks.
 

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Stacy

How trainable do you consider COs? My impression--mostly formed from my TD, a Ukrainian woman who breeds and trains Presas and Mals...and worked COs and Central Asians and stuff in Kiev in the 80s and 90s, and what I have read--is that they aren't as tractable as most breeds, not as interested in training interaction. Not a comment on their intelligence or anything, just curious to know what training an owner can do with them beyond the basic socialization stuff. They kind of strike me as 200 lb cats, in a way (not a criticism, my own cat is close to 200 lbs :wink:).

What expectations would you set for a buyer about what they are getting and how their dogs might adapt to owner situations and training interests?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Woody Taylor said:
Stacy

How trainable do you consider COs? My impression--mostly formed from my TD, a Ukrainian woman who breeds and trains Presas and Mals...and worked COs and Central Asians and stuff in Kiev in the 80s and 90s, and what I have read--is that they aren't as tractable as most breeds, not as interested in training interaction. Not a comment on their intelligence or anything, just curious to know what training an owner can do with them beyond the basic socialization stuff. They kind of strike me as 200 lb cats, in a way (not a criticism, my own cat is close to 200 lbs :wink:).

What expectations would you set for a buyer about what they are getting and how their dogs might adapt to owner situations and training interests?

Hi Woody! I think you are spot on in your assessment of the Caucasian being similar to a giant cat, and less tractable than many other breeds. I think for the livestock guardian dog group however, Caucasians are on the more trainable end of that spectrum, and a bit more willing than say, a Tibetan Mastiff. In Russia however, the breed routinely completes the requirements for the OKD (basic obedience). There are several UCD and 1 UCDX Caucasian in the US.

While I've taken my dogs through various obedience courses over the years, my focus has been on the acquisition of good dogs, pedigree study and some breeding. It seems that, when I can get away with it, I train my dogs as little as possible, but as efficiently as possible, preferring to teach them house and leash manners and leaving it at that for the most part, maybe because of owner (me) laziness, but also because I enjoy the self thinking nature of the flockguardian breed. My dogs do walk calmly on lead, come when called, understand the word "No" and the phrase "leave it". My showdogs stand and stay for hands on examination and show dentition, and gait. All of my dogs are socialized, can go off property, go to the vet's office, go to Petsmart, with cooperative behavior. My dogs have participated in pet Expo's and agricultural fair demos around the country, have made several television appearances, starred in a local tv commercial, and also been photo models for Isabelle Francis photography, for trading cards, and for American Greetings cards and calendars. The first Delta Society certified Caucasian is from my kennel, and was sold at 18 months old so she grew up under my care. The first American Temperament Test (ATTS) certified Caucasians are from my kennel, and one of my dogs scored 100% and high scored at an Eastern Rarebreed Temperament Test also.

As for buyer expectations, I prefer that buyers visit my kennel in person and get hands on with the breed. Puppies should be enrolled in puppy kindergarten, and level 1 and 2 basic obedience and be able to complete these courses with ease. Regardless of training, Caucasians that are off lead and remote from owner can disobey when instinct overrides their training so my owners are cautioned to keep their dogs under control at all times - leash and fence - unless they have extensively proofed offlead control under various distractions. My kennel has greater than 95% successful placement rate and owner satisfaction.

I imported the first Russian protection certified Caucasian to the US (KS-1), and am interested to learn what venues may be open to and appropriate for the breed - temperament testing, protection training etc.

I have tried to post to other working dog forums, join discussions, show my dogs as they are, and to learn. I put forth that my dogs and the puppies purchased from my kennel, are home watchdogs and natural guardians, providing security to the family. While I socialize my pups with horses and birds, I make no claims that they are livestock guards beyond barn protection or make any other specific claims about their abilities, except that they will alert to, and keep strangers out of the protected areas. The current trend has been for people, who for the most part don't know me or my dogs, to unfairly criticize, and downright discredit my kennel and sometimes even the breed. Some of it is in response to my outspoken posts on boards, some of the undercurrent is generated by other Ovcharka kennels that apparently feel threatened about their share of the very small market for Ovcharkas in the US, and some of it comes out of left field for reasons I fail to understand, other than it seems too many people in dogs are dissatisfied with their own life and achievements and perhaps take pleasure in potshots at others. Since WDF is a professional and strictly moderated forum, I look forward to spending my time here learning and sharing and not defending every moment. My dog project is a tremendous joy in my life, a journey of accomplishment, but without the constant impetus of feeling of having to "prove" to the world. I am only proving to myself. There is so much to learn!

Questions about my experiences with the breed very much welcomed.

Best regards to the forum,

Stacey
 

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Stacey Kubyn said:
All of my dogs are socialized, can go off property, go to the vet's office, go to Petsmart, with cooperative behavior.
Heh, that must be quite a site to see a few COs in the aisles at PetSmart trying to deal with all those yorkies and pits on their flexi-leads. :lol:

My dog project is a tremendous joy in my life, a journey of accomplishment, but without the constant impetus of feeling of having to "prove" to the world. I am only proving to myself. There is so much to learn!
Well, I think many people here are genuinely curious about livestock guardian dogs...I really am, I wish I could interact with them more, even though my own situation and interests would keep me from getting one. I'd love to see them sometime, also really interested in other LGs like Estrela Mountain Dogs. I end up being around Presas and some bulldog variants at my club, I always enjoy seeing how different breeds act in similar situations. The range of dog behaviors is pretty cool to observe.

The majority of people here, as you know already, are interested in developing out herding breeds through protection sport and service applications. But yeah, don't sweat getting attacked here, it's not a big pee-pee molosser forum, and everybody here is aware that it's a different dog with different purposes and capabilities. No producers from "Designer Dogs" are registered here, either. :wink: We have two terrier nuts but they are old and deaf from all the yipping of their Airedales, Borders, and JRTs.

It's pretty obvious that you're dedicated and aware of what you have...just one request...lots and lots of videos and pictures are appreciated! All of us like learning about other breeds. Anything you share is welcome, and would encourage you to talk to some of the folks here about incorporating some of their perspectives and methods into whatever interests you have with your dogs. Would love to watch how that would and would not work in your program.
 
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