Bob Scott said:
Tim, IMHO it's a dog that loves to fight for the sake of the fight itself. It isn't doing so out of defence, but nothing more then knowing it can win. I know a lot of that has to do with building a young dogs confidence, but as I think most will agree, some dogs will never reach this level of confidence.
lou's definition varies greatly from most people's view, so i won't even discuss it. not saying i disagree with it, but most people buy into bob's definition.
my trainer (who has been training dogs for over 30 years) would tell you that dogs only have 3 "drives" which are for food, shelter and sex. for the purposes of this discussion, i don't think we need to get into the exact definition of a "drive". if you except that prey and defense are "drives", then we'll start with that common ground.
for so many people who believe in fight drive and with the abundance of video content on the internet, why can nobody produce a video of a dog in "fight drive"? i've literally seen hundreds of videos of dogs working and nobody has said "look at the fight drive in this dog". somebody show it to me, because i'd love to see this newly made up drive.
there was an excellent discussion of this topic on the odinhaus board. i'm going to copy/paste an excellent post in that thread:
"A couple of base ideas:
- Any time that the term drive is used, it implies a genetic predisposition to act a certain way.
- Most ethologist believe in a specific group of natural aggresion (pack, territitorial, social, guarding (food,bounty, etc), sex, rage, defensive, prey) I am sure I left a few out.
Now, having said that... in order to have Fight Drive, there must be a genetically acquired trait that 'drives' the dog to exhibit outward aggression in a manner that does not jive within the prey/defense paradigm.
Prey and defensive, hunt, pack, etc drives are commonly selected, and bred for... yet fight seems to be a trait that we (humans) cannot select for. WHY??
Many say that it is a late-maturing trait that only crops up in adult dogs that have had appropriate training.... This sounds more like experience/confidence than a drive. Anyone else?
If it was genetic, it would not require nuturing to manifest... all truly genetic behaviors manifest on their own... granted to varying degrees based on training/experience.
Also, as someone else stated much earlier, if fight were a naturally occuring drive, it would be diametrically opposed to the concept of natural selection as fighting with no direct survival benefit would lead to the extinction of a line.
I read what Bill said about man-made selection.. and I agree to a point... but in order for man to select on a trait... it has to exist... and it could not exist for the reason stated earlier...
The only other explanation I can accept would be if fight drive was a mental retardation inherent in specific lines.... retardation and mutation are the only genetic exceptions to nature's rules.
so, how dumb am I? "
that post was made by Matt Moore. he expanded very eloquently on one of the things i brought up about natural selection...