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Great job! I definitely like the fact that the handler was willing to give verbal reassurance to the pup right before the turn around to come back. The handler might not have been verbal, but while watching it I found myself saying " easy...easy..." :)
 

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Al,

Good work! :lol:

Do you continue to refine the handler's signals making them more and more subtle?
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks, guys...

Yes, Greg. It's more subtle now. In that workout the handler was being guided on body movements and signals the pup will clearly understand. The team must act as one and he was having difficulties with that at first. We may have to incorporate article searches in that workout very soon.

Best regards...
 

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very impressive

I think that is very impressive. I do not want this to sound wrong but what is the purpose of this exercise? I know the ablilty to climb and cross boards would be nice. The video looks to be very dangerous for the dog. One wrong slip and the dog could break his back or something else. I know we all try to train for real world situations but I see no real world situation that a dog needs the ability to to climb around in a roof/celing. This is just my opinion. In my opinion a working dog can be taught to do just about anything but I like to limit the risk to the dog. Good dogs are very hard to come by and I do not like to put mine in a situation that would injure him.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: very impressive

Daniel Cox said:
I think that is very impressive. I do not want this to sound wrong but what is the purpose of this exercise? I know the ablilty to climb and cross boards would be nice. The video looks to be very dangerous for the dog. One wrong slip and the dog could break his back or something else. I know we all try to train for real world situations but I see no real world situation that a dog needs the ability to to climb around in a roof/celing. This is just my opinion. In my opinion a working dog can be taught to do just about anything but I like to limit the risk to the dog. Good dogs are very hard to come by and I do not like to put mine in a situation that would injure him.
Hello Daniel, there are several threads here where these kind of exercises were discussed. Let me help you with the links:

http://www.workingdogforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1947

http://www.workingdogforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2375

Hope it helps...

Best regards...
 

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Re: very impressive

Jose Alberto Reanto said:
That thread, at least the way I understood it, addresses situations in which the dog and handler are going through such exercises together.

QUOTE from the referenced thread:
QUOTE: I believe Greg's basic point is that training should be a shared experience, where the handler feels the "rough" spots as well as the dog, and they eventually understand each other better. END
 

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More than some people ( :lol: ), I know the benefits of these exercises, but not to the extent that you could potentially put a dog in danger. Even teaching my dog to climb a ladder I have to watch that I'm there for him to fall on. I have seen some puppy obedience of this nature where the puppy is being taught to walk across the cement railing of a highway bridge (if he fell the other way, he'd be dead and ran over as soon as he touches the ground); wouldn't a park bench in a busy street suffice?

I understand these dogs, started early, are light on their feet...but the question remains, in the case of an accident, will this be the kind of accident that could *really* hurt a dog? (Even cats fall off rooftops!) My other fear is that because this kind of training likes to point out the 'reality' aspect, that it may attract certain kinds of people who will then ask their dogs to do feats that are pointless other than to brag about. Maybe we could at least see the dogs with a harness on. :twisted:
 

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Connie Sutherland said:
Lyn Chen said:
.... Maybe we could at least see the dogs with a harness on. :twisted:
Or something else I have seen: a net underneath.
that would defeat the purpose of the exercize. it would not add the proper stress to the handler if he/she knew there was no possibility of their dog getting injured...
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: very impressive

Connie Sutherland said:
Jose Alberto Reanto said:
That thread, at least the way I understood it, addresses situations in which the dog and handler are going through such exercises together.

QUOTE from the referenced thread:
QUOTE: I believe Greg's basic point is that training should be a shared experience, where the handler feels the "rough" spots as well as the dog, and they eventually understand each other better. END

That is true. Connie, you did the ladders too, didn't you? How far did you or can you go? So does sharing mean you have to be physically up there all the time even if you knew that your dog is more than agile and strong enough to handle the ladder exercise? It will defeat the purpose too, right? In fact, you will defeat your very own purpose, if you have one. So the aim will be to allow the dog to do it confidently like its second nature to him with minimum supervision from you.

I believe Greg said ladder work is a 5-minute job. That's true and may even be less, but I was about to add that it will depend on the handler's attitude. You know why? Well, you better IM Greg why. You may prefer to rather take it from him. Then you'll know what "sharing the rough spots" will actually mean.

Best regards...
 

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Re: very impressive

Jose Alberto Reanto said:
That is true. Connie, you did the ladders too, didn't you? How far did you or can you go? ..
Only vertical, and I was behind my dog with my arms to either side of him the first few time. I also physically placed his back feet a couple of times. And it was slow. :lol:

But then Pomfret was able to do it himself, with my gradual backing off.

I didn't ask him to climb up high or cross rafters, etc., because I am unable to do that with him and because I don't have a harness or a net for height.

However, I liked the ladder exercise very much. I admit that for me it was not a five-minute job. I imagine that the slowness was indeed a reflection of me and not my dog.

Also, the reality for my dogs is that they are not likely to run across any roof, rafter, or cliff work. :D

I have watched PSDs traim for situations that I cannot manage, and have seen nets and harnesses used.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Tim Martens said:
Lyn Chen said:
But...how would you deal with a situation where a dog slips and falls off?
easy. you stop the camera, back up the tape, and start recording again with a different dog...

Yeeeeaaaah.... why not? :idea: You just gave me a very good idea, Tim. Thanks a lot, pal.

Unfortunately, that guy was the first to arrive and warmed-up his pup. My pup was already up there, if you noticed. :cry:

But I'll keep that good cheating in mind. You know, sometimes honesty is not always the best training aid....

Best regards...
 

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Re: very impressive

Jose Alberto Reanto said:
I believe Greg said ladder work is a 5-minute job. That's true and may even be less, but I was about to add that it will depend on the handler's attitude. You know why? Well, you better IM Greg why. You may prefer to rather take it from him. Then you'll know what "sharing the rough spots" will actually mean.

Best regards...
That sounds pretty secretive. :eek:

I am still curious about this: QUOTE: So the aim will be to allow the dog to do it confidently like its second nature to him with minimum supervision from you. END

Does this preclude (and why?) using nets, harnesses, or other safety equipment? I guess I can understand wanting to eliminate a harness in certain situations, but a net doesn't seem to be something that the dog would understand, right? So it wouldn't detract from the reality of the exercise.... ? At least, for the dog.
 

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Jose Alberto Reanto said:
Tim Martens said:
Lyn Chen said:
But...how would you deal with a situation where a dog slips and falls off?
easy. you stop the camera, back up the tape, and start recording again with a different dog...

Yeeeeaaaah.... why not? :idea: You just gave me a very good idea, Tim. Thanks a lot, pal.

Unfortunately, that guy was the first to arrive and warmed-up his pup. My pup was already up there, if you noticed. :cry:

But I'll keep that good cheating in mind. You know, sometimes honesty is not always the best training aid....

Best regards...
i hope you know i only made these last two posts in jest...
 
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