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There's also a sleeve for the puppy too, with all the prey movement they use in sport. ;) Let's not forget dogs will view anything as a 'toy', it doesn't have to be a red bouncy kong. Mine seem to think the household flip flops are theirs.

I agree, very nice, happy pup who's having lots of fun.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
There's also a sleeve for the puppy too, with all the prey movement they use in sport. ;) Let's not forget dogs will view anything as a 'toy', it doesn't have to be a red bouncy kong. Mine seem to think the household flip flops are theirs.

I agree, very nice, happy pup who's having lots of fun.

The decoy thought of those as well, started doing prey movements like in sports till that pup nicked him in the leg instead of taking his offered sleeve. That's when he realized he must not do that again....
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So I take it that was after the camera was turned off then?

No Mike, look at the video. Where did the pup strike when the decoy moved sideways and offered the sleeve? Then the decoy warded the dog off, didn't he? that was only when the pup took that extended arm with the sleeve. Then the camera was turned off.

There was broken skin, not really much, just enough to tell the decoy something...

There was a sendout after that, but the decoy knew better than putting his sleeved arm parallel to his chest, as commonly done.
 

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I guess I missed that.

High in the chest is an adult dog thing, not a puppy thing. The pup doesn't know what he's supposed to do with a sleeve, n a pup that age shouldn't even be on a sleeve yet. If you are gonna have a decoy do "sport-like" training then at least do it properly. The pup went for the leg because the leg was moving n the decoy was dumb enough to let the pup get it. If you are gonna do prey work with a pup that age then get a rag, or at most a thin tug and tease the pup with it.

Not sure why you titled the video "aggression".
 

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I always thought that a proper puppy should nip anything that moves (or doesn't move)...

One of the biggest problems for people doing drive work for obedience is getting bit by the dog because other parts of their body is moving. I certainly would not consider this a 'big deal'.

I agree with Mike that what the decoy should have done was proper prey work at least. Even for sports that kind of work would have not been good enough. What was Jeff saying in the other topic? Something to do with active vs. reactive dogs.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I guess I missed that.
High in the chest is an adult dog thing, not a puppy thing.
I guess it's force of habit, Mike, as I see it quite common when someone wears a sleeve. People here are shorter that with a little bending, it can be quite possible. I offer only an explanation , as I don't work that way too.

The pup doesn't know what he's supposed to do with a sleeve...
Shouldn't that be? The dog or a pup is there to fight it out, and not to know what he's supposed to do with a sleeve. The decoy then must protect himself with what need be. Unless the pup is only trained to focus and bite on the sleeve, then....

..., n a pup that age shouldn't even be on a sleeve yet.
Now, can we agree to disagree here, Mike? If that's a rule, I'm happy to have broken it.

If you are gonna have a decoy do "sport-like" training then at least do it properly.
I agree, if I knew he was going to move sideways after that agitation switching to a "sport-like" training as you say, I could have warned him and avoided that little "accident". The pup obviously doesn't need that motion to invite him to bite anyway.

The pup went for the leg because the leg was moving n the decoy was dumb enough to let the pup get it.
The pup went for the leg because it was the smart thing to do, immobilize the prey then sink his teeth in. That's nature and for me, that was a good sign. As for the decoy, he learned to adjust. That's the important part. If he didn't, that makes him dumb.

If you are gonna do prey work with a pup that age then get a rag, or at most a thin tug and tease the pup with it.
Tease the pup? You think that pup need to be teased at all? Besides, I don't tease pups, Mike. Methods vary, my objective is what I want to achieve. If I could get the best results (which I do) to suit my purpose without tugs, rags, food or props, why should I bother using them? Plain and simple.

Not sure why you titled the video "aggression".
I understand. You work in play, I work otherwise....

Best regards...
 

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OH BULLSHIT,you did nothing in that video except show us that your decoy knows nothing about how to work a dog.

I do agree that the lil bastage doesn't need to be teased to work. So go ahead and send him to me, as this is the first dog I have seen from you that I REALLY LIKE. : P

Why take the thing bigger than my head, when I can get a skinny leg. This is not unusual at all.

The dog was munchin on the treat you had in your hand "Oh mystic one" : P



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Although that was way more OB than I personally like to see on a dog that age (and way more prong!) it was still cute... not sure I see the problem with rewaring such a young pup with food?? Anyways, good job!

As for the decoy work.. hmm.. from what can be seen, which is limited, it leaves a lot to be desired!

Nice pupper, although you may want to look into a new decoy... nice pupper could fast turn into ruined pupper!
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
OH BULLSHIT,you did nothing in that video except show us that your decoy knows nothing about how to work a dog.
BULLSHIT, JEFF!!!!! Don't you still get it? THE DECOY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR DOGS!!!!!! HE'S NEVER A HELPER IN OUR CASE!!! He's always to act menacingly againts me and my dog during bitework. Let that pup understand that it's the only time he can react aggressively and with brute force, else, he should always remain calm and stable. WORK IS WORK, NOT PLAY. IT'S THE HANDLER WHO WORKS HIS DOG, NOT THAT FREAKING DECOY. Understand?

I do agree that the lil bastage doesn't need to be teased to work. So go ahead and send him to me, as this is the first dog I have seen from you that I REALLY LIKE. : P
Oh, Jeff. Sorry to disappoint you but this lil bastage is a circus dog too. In fact, the very first one. He showed all other pups what pups can do, breaking all myths that pups can't be worked early. Surprised? Oh you'll surely love my other pups as well if this is the kind of pup you'll want. But they deserve a better handler, not one that pokes a dirty finger on his dog as part of his training. I wonder what's going on in that guy's head? Pretty silly, isn't it?

Why take the thing bigger than my head, when I can get a skinny leg. This is not unusual at all.
Yeeeeeeeeeessssss, why take that thing bigger than your head? It shouldn't be unusual at all and that's mainly what I am trying to say all along. All our pups do these and it's no big deal. You're absolutely right, it's not really strange nor is it mystic training. So go ahead and tell the rest, Jeff.


The dog was munchin on the treat you had in your hand "Oh mystic one" : P
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Nice try, Jeff!!! You poor thing. By the way, where's that video you said you would do and show me, Oh Great Trainer? Or you're just full of hot air and you can't do what you say? I'm sorry, in our little corner of the world, we do as we say, or we lose face.
 

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Nice try, Jeff!!! You poor thing. By the way, where's that video you said you would do and show me, Oh Great Trainer? Or you're just full of hot air and you can't do what you say? I'm sorry, in our little corner of the world, we do as we say, or we lose face.
so are you saying that the handler wasn't giving the dog a treat in that video?

lots of history here sammy. of course there's nothing wrong with giving a puppy or even a dog for that matter a treat. this greatly differs from what jose has said in the past and even in this thread. by having the puppy climb ladders and walk planks, the dog and handler build a bond where the dog only works for the handler and does nothing for itself, therefor treats and any other tangible reward are not needed. at least that's what he has said in the past...
 

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Re: I Must Be Blind...

For what it's worth, I've seen the first video before and I just watched it again now...I still don't see anything in Al's hand. If you watch the video closely, you see(at least with my blind eyes) his hand is facing downward the whole time, and even when the pup tries to nip him it never makes contact.

That said, thanks as always to Al for sharing!


Andy.
 
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